Daughter being excluded from prom

[user1471497170]

My daughter is year 11 and sits GCSEs next month. She has struggled throughout the whole of secondary school with friendships, MH/school anxiety, behaviour and approximately a year ago almost got sent to pru. She has never settled in school. However she has made significant improvement, not on any behaviour plan, is revising hard and should pass GCSEs and do her chosen subjects in college.

She has autism, anxiety and some physical health issues that are likely linked. Getting her into school is a struggle as she feels unhappy there but we make the effort and her attendance is good.

Although much improved her behaviour score is not high enough to meet the 90% prom threshold (reminders, uniform points and gokng to toilet when not permitted). She was informally told this week the final decision is that she will be excluded from prom.

Now all the girls have their tickets and she is beside herself. They are all making plans and talking about dresses and she now feels unable to continue going to school due to feeling so distressed about this. She is worried how she will cope with the sense of exclusion having to keep hearing about prom in school and assemblies

She's now at home. I have written to the school and submitted 2 complaints over the last 2 months however I have not received a satisfactory response. There has been no communication to me from the school about their decision or how they will support those excluded. Please can someone advise how I can escalate this further and if possible externally.

If they are not rational.whatever made you think being excluded from an event will have any effect or even be respected?
Risk assessment re individual pupils to determine whether they can safely attend yes. But all major events have a whole event risk assessment. That's basic health and safety. So it should cover the eventuality you described given you seem to think it's a strong possibility. And yes if there are real unresolved safety concerns consulting and involving the police is a good idea.

Safety is non negotiable. If it can't be done safely enough within budget the responsibility unfortunately is not to run it. That should all be clear previous to the event.
Ok can you explain what the process is?

It wasn't highly likely that Timmy would turn up based on our previous experience with him. But he did. Obviously there was a risk assessment and the plan was to get rid of the other kids if someone dangerous turned up, so that's what we did.

This thread has just shown the difference between the airy fairy all can be redeemed world, and the real world.

You're right @Warmlight1 that invitation to events may not be respected by some participants.

But that doesn't mean you invite everybody because they might turn up anyway. If they are risk assessed to not be a suitable risk to attend, then they would not be invited.

I'm not a teacher, but I'd assume like with anything like this a risk assessment would consider likely behaviour and mitigate risk by removing invites from those more likely to be harder to supervise.

You do seem to be arguing for both extremes here. That a prom is far too dangerous to hold, but also that all kids, irrespective of behaviour should attend it.

It's a bloody party! It's some crisps, some pop and music FFS! It's attendance at school, slightly out of school hours. It's a voluntary act by teachers so they're under no obligation to invite the little shits who have made their lives hell for 5 years. It's not Glastonbury. It's not a wedding. It's not a community event. It's an overblown US import that many kids on the ND spectrum will say "no thanks" to anyway.

In summary, it's really not a big fucking deal, the OP has been vague and deliberately so IMO because if she'd not been, she would easily have defended by she felt it to be unfair. But most importantly, the OP has long gone.

Well not really- here is a prom where there were security staff- and police were also called and turned up- so seems schools are taking safety seriously and employing extra security staff as part of the assessed risk mitigation.
The parents are questioning the communication and process that's a separate issue I think. It's not airy fairy to expect an event not to be disturbed by having to evacuate everyone.
meonvalleytimes.co.uk/police-called-as-pupils-turned-away-from-school-prom-in-swanmore/

You might want to look at the definition of the term "confirmation bias" @Warmlight1 . One example when you've googled "prom where there were security staff police turned up" does not mean it's the norm.

No I've not argued inviting everyone at any point. Think we agree there. I agree it's overblown as well. There should in my view be a simple risk assessment for pupils for whom the event will be too much it should be communicated well in advance before the invites go out and maybe alternatives looked at. It should not be seen or promoted at that stage as a sanction for transgressions.

The non payment If the teachers is a big issue. If the teachers were paid that would go some way to solve the problem. You sound as if the incentive for the teachers in this process is getting their own back. I know the teachers are better than that but anyone can get frazzled. Even in prisons- some would say especially- there's a need to counter burn out and it's a leadership job.

And I'm overthinking it? @Warmlight1

You have just made up a long list from A to J, half of which is your own speculation and assumptions. Of course you are overthinking it!

They are not my assumptions! All those things are here on this thread! That's what people think is happening!

The issue with proms is not the good kids with reasonable parents. Teachers put the work in for these students. Its not even the students who’ve caused issues over the years - where they are not a safeguarding risk.
The big issues is students who still show they might do something out of line - and this is the important bit - with parents who think their children do no wrong. Where the parent will argue and argue that their child is not issue. Where the parent will not let the issues go, they will over think and defend their unreasonable child. If the parent had put that much effort into their child’s behaviour 4 years ago they wouldn’t be in this situation.
Sometimes you just have to learn the lesson (or not) and let things go.

I don't think any child should be excluded from the end of their school journey celebration after so many years study. It's actually particularly cruel and emotionally harming usually to a child that's struggled through the school process. A staff member could keep a keen eye on those that need it during a prom. It's the last chance to process, celebrate, let go of that journey and get some good feelings attached to it's end especially just after exam stress. Excluding all but dangerous students is just mean and will create resentment that child will carry forward into life.

School staff aren’t paid to supervise prom. No child has a right to be there. Find another way to celebrate.

I don't think any child should be excluded from the end of their school journey celebration @Keith2cu

I agree that every child should be part of the celebration marking the end of their school journey. That said, we should distinguish between a graduation and a prom. I do not personally view a social party like a prom as a formal celebration of one's education.
It is similar to how I view a wedding as a necessity, whereas the party afterwards is optional.

They should risk assess. But I'd argue schools don't have a right to involve staff in a voluntary ' duty' then position themselves as excluding pupils from the party who don't represent a risk as a punitive measure.

What? Staff voluntarily give up their time. Prom isn’t a right. It’s a privilege. Students don’t have a right to go. It’s made clear very early on at most schools that anyone not achieving a certain standard of behaviour won’t be able to go. There are lots of other ways to mark the end of Y11. Really really want to go to prom? Well then behave. 🤷‍♀️

Here you are again calling it a punitive measure. It’s the opposite. Those who follow the rules and meet the threshold are rewarded. Those who don’t, aren’t. Nobody is punished.

The opposite of reward is punish

There are examples all the time of pupils being punished for minor infractions

Someone I know son has EBSA alongside this they have huge sensory issues with the school tie.
After being unable to attend for months. He managed to get through the school door again. His tie was loose within minutes he was shouted at over his tie and put in isolation as a punishment for his tie. What happened the next day? We he was back to being unable to walk through the door

But surely the default position is being allowed to go?

The opposite of reward is not punishment. They are different concepts.

No. The default position is - this is the level of behaviour you need to achieve to be eligible to go.

I think everyone agrees that the school has the right to even expel students if they seriously break school rules.
But why do some people object when schools ban students who have consistently broken the rules over the years and therefore have low behaviour scores from attending such non-educational events as the prom？

"But why do some people object when schools ban students who have consistently broken the rules over the years and therefore have low behaviour scores from attending such non-educational events as the prom"

Because they are more concerned with the entitlement/ rights of the individual than the responsibilities of those same individuals towards others?

Yep. Entitlement vs responsibility.
Maddening. Just one of the many reasons that teachers are leaving the profession. Note to teens. The world doesn’t owe you a party.

Behaviour should be dealt with at the time. Not at the end of the schools years.
No point allowing pupils to misbehave in yr 9 without consequences but then ban them from prom - deal with it at the time with appropriate consequences

I disagree. If a child is badly behaved throughout the school year then I think it's fair enough for them to be excluded from the prom.