HBS v DAO twin dilemma

[twindilemma82]

I am really struggling with secondary school choices for my twins.

Twin 1 is super academic, very quiet, lacks confidence but very driven. She hasn't had a good time in primary and really struggled to make friends. She was successful in the grammar school exams. She is desperate to go to HBS and I think it would suit her as she'd do well in a small academic environment without boys and where the girls are studious and unpretentious.

However currently we've listed DAO as first on both twins' CAF because of the sibling policy and because of the wide ranging extra curricular activities. Twin 1 is so desperate to go to HBS, she talks of nothing else. She's become miserable about her future and generally anxious. She's written me long word documents on the subject of HBS. She doesn't understand why she worked so hard for the exam if she doesn't get to go to the school she wants. She did work extremely hard.

Her sister is less academic (she chose not to sit the eleven plus). She is very sociable and extremely kind. She is still academic and will do well if pushed. Her self esteem has been knocked by her sister's progress. She never does better than her sister in tests and is always comparing herself (even though I try to avoid this). She wants to go to DAO because of the extra curricular activities and its music offer. She does see the benefits of not being with her sister (and so going to a different school) but prefers to go to the better school.

If I switch the application preferences, twin 1 is likely to get into HBS. It's possible that twin 2 will get into another school that we like but it's also possible that she won't. The other school that we like is fine with great facilities but it doesn't compare to DAO in terms of results or extra curricular offer. If she doesn't get that school, then we are very much stuck!

It feels like there's no right answer and no matter what we do, we are letting one twin down. Any advice ?

Do you mean Twin1 passed the exam for DAO but Twin2 didn’t, but will get in because of the sibling policy? This is a really tough situation as you wouldn’t want Twin1 to miss out on her dream school. Could you chance an appeals process for DAO?

If you had twins of different sexes and they each wanted to go to a single sex school you probably would agree to them going to separate schools.
would it not be reasonable therefore to send each child to their preferred school if they got a place.

I think you should treat them as you would children of different sexes (as PP said) or if they were different ages, and apply for HBS for Twin1 and wherever is appropriate for Twin2. I think it is very unfair on Twin1 to essentially use her as a ticket for Twin2, particularly when she has made it so clear how she feels about going to HBS.

Is this for 2025 entry? Wouldn't it be too late to switch preferences now and list HBS as 1st choice for Twin 1?

I'd check with your admissions authority. If twin 1 passed HBS, it would be a shame not to let her go (although I think the only way you find out about HBS R2 is by being offered a place so it may not be clear if she would have passed or not),

Let them go to the school they want

You can't switch now though - if you do, both applications will be treated as late, and processed after all other applications, so you are very unlikely to get either school.

Assuming you are in Barnet, you change now, you won't get a school until they do the second round of allocations at the end of March.

Why did you have your daughter sit the 11+ if you weren't going to let her go? That's a crazy amount of effort to not let her apply.

It sounds like you’ve really put twin 1 second here - using her 11+ result to get twin 2 into her preferred school, when twin 1 would have chosen HBS. You’ve left it until it’s too late to change preferences to ask this so twin 2 will probably still get her way. I’d call the council and ask best way forward for twin 1- can you alter her preference at this stage or at least waitlist her for HBS?

If twin 2 didn't sit the 11+ what school would she go to? Allocation day is in a 3/4 weeks so I wonder if you can accept DAO for twin 2 and reject it for twin 1 selecting to wait for HBS. You would then go on the HBS waiting list - it is a gamble but there is usually movement and if her score is high she would get the top spot on the waiting list??? Just an idea.

If Twin1 struggled to make friends in primary and lacks confidence, are you sure she won't struggle at HBS? It can be rather intense, competitive and stressful there.

Barnet and HBS said that twin 1 very likely to get a place from waiting list so even though it would be a late application, she'd likely to get in.

So if we switch preferences now, the switch would be deemed a late application but the original application would still be treated as in time. Therefore likely to get offered DAO on offer day (which we'd accept), but twin 1 would get a later waiting list offer from HBS.

Twin 2 didn't sit any eleven plus exam so would not get into DAO through an appeal.

Although HBS might be stressful I think twin 1 would probably thrive there. She loved the 'stress' and work of eleven plus.

OK so you used Twin 1s academic prowess to get both of them into DAO and now you feel guilty? Because you are forcing Twin 1 to give up her HBS dream just to get her sister into DAO?
Does DAO not have a grammar stream as well? Are you sure HBS will actually be better for Twin 1 long term? Usually they mostly prefer less pressure and coed at Sixth Form. Could you go see DAO again with Twin 1?
I do agree though that Twin 1 should get the choice.

I think HBS for twin 1 as she worked so hard and wrote a letter about it.

From what you've said of twin 1 they may actually do better socially at HBS and find there are more girls they have things in common with. If you switched preferences would they both get DAO on offer day, twin 2 could keep then twin 1 hopefully get HBS off waitlist?

There will be lots of other, very similar girls to your daughter at HBS and she will probably be happy socially (although it's extremely academic which does bring some of its own problems).

I think if twins have very different academic profiles it is probably better for them to go to different schools. I actually know a couple of pairs of adult twins who have been compared their entire lives, and it has really affected the one who perceives themself to be the "less" successful ever years later.

Could you wait for admissions day. Accept DAO for both and then ask go go on the waiting list for HBS for twin 1?

You have been grossly unfair by twin 1 and she may rightly hold it against you

Treat them as individuals

So I didn't really use twin 1 to get them both into DAO. I actually thought it was an amazing school (and thought it was unlikely that she'd get into HBS). Just having second thoughts in last few months because she is so absolutely determined that HBS is best for her and won't change her mind. I also am persuaded by the argument that she'd find it easier to make friends.

I'm not sure that it would be acceptable to accept DAO for twin 2 and HBS for twin 1, given that for twin 2 it'd be a sibling place.

Twin 1 shouldn’t miss out on HBD so Twin 2 can ride her coat tails into DAO.

Bluntly, you’re expecting Twin 1 to make a huge sacrifice for Twin 2.

Rock and a hard place and unfortunately this is probably going to create some serious sister angst no matter what. PP seem to be assuming that you submitted the original preferences despite how strongly DD1 felt about HBS, but maybe those feelings have really grown since preferences were closed, while DD2 has locked in more to the idea of going to DAO?

Regardless, I don't think it changes what you need to do now. It's not in your power as a parent to create equal outcomes for your children - you can't set the admissions criteria or control school allocations, you can't make them both the same type of student or social creature, and you can't control their respective 11+ performance/choice to sit. But you can still give them the same opportunity to each put down their own first choice as preference #1, and that's what you should do. DD1's first choice is HBS so she gets to put that down, and DD2's first choice is DAO so she gets to put that down, and you frame it to them just like that. How the admissions process works out isn't up to you - I honestly don't know whether DD2's accepted sibling place would be automatically withdrawn if DD1 then got a waitlist offer to HBS, but that's not something in your power to decide. Just like you couldn't control each DD's 11+ chances or performance but you gave each the same choice to sit or not.

I think allowing DD1 to submit the new preferences just as you would if she were an only child is absolutely the most fair option, but the reality is that there's a good chance that if DD2's DAO spot does get withdrawn (she just knows it might) she'll still be angry and want to blame her sister. Please be proactive and firm about this - it's ok to be upset and disappointed if she doesn't get her first choice of school from her preference list but she doesn't get to take it out on her sister. "You each got the same choices - whether to sit the 11+ and which school to put down as your first choice. It wouldn't be fair to let either one of you choose for the other."

I'd also like to add I imagine this is a very difficult situation for you OP. Easy to judge from afar but challenging when you are in the midst! You sound like a great mum who is trying to work out the best thing for both their daughters. I hope the right path becomes clear.

Saw this question on another 11+ forum. Curious if Mumsnet responses differ. Both are state schools, but far apart and very different setting. DAO may have a bit more funding due to the provision, and top students at both achieve similar results. Why do parents think HBS offers more opportunities than DAO? Or is it just the preference for an all-girls school?

We used to live in the area and I know both schools well. I'd send both girls to DAO, it's a lovely school, academic enough and with lots of extra options. Children adjust to circumstances, and going to DAO is not a terrible situation at all :)

The alternative is Twin1 getting their choice and Twin2 ending up at random school as DAO sibling place will be withdrawn - Twin2 didn't sit their tests so they simply don't know her as a potential pupil.

HBS GCSE results in English and EngLit are not good for their intake. Some other subjects are not stellar either, but Eng/Lit are core, essential subjects and the school cannot manage to teach its highly academic and hardworking cohort to 8-9 standard 🤷‍♀️

I guess it's usually a magic of being "THE top school" :)

In OP's case though it looks like the child's strong will which is understandable but in reality is not a 100% guarantee of anything really though motivation helps of course.