HBS v DAO twin dilemma

[twindilemma82]

I am really struggling with secondary school choices for my twins.

Twin 1 is super academic, very quiet, lacks confidence but very driven. She hasn't had a good time in primary and really struggled to make friends. She was successful in the grammar school exams. She is desperate to go to HBS and I think it would suit her as she'd do well in a small academic environment without boys and where the girls are studious and unpretentious.

However currently we've listed DAO as first on both twins' CAF because of the sibling policy and because of the wide ranging extra curricular activities. Twin 1 is so desperate to go to HBS, she talks of nothing else. She's become miserable about her future and generally anxious. She's written me long word documents on the subject of HBS. She doesn't understand why she worked so hard for the exam if she doesn't get to go to the school she wants. She did work extremely hard.

Her sister is less academic (she chose not to sit the eleven plus). She is very sociable and extremely kind. She is still academic and will do well if pushed. Her self esteem has been knocked by her sister's progress. She never does better than her sister in tests and is always comparing herself (even though I try to avoid this). She wants to go to DAO because of the extra curricular activities and its music offer. She does see the benefits of not being with her sister (and so going to a different school) but prefers to go to the better school.

If I switch the application preferences, twin 1 is likely to get into HBS. It's possible that twin 2 will get into another school that we like but it's also possible that she won't. The other school that we like is fine with great facilities but it doesn't compare to DAO in terms of results or extra curricular offer. If she doesn't get that school, then we are very much stuck!

It feels like there's no right answer and no matter what we do, we are letting one twin down. Any advice ?

Do the girls know about the sibling rule - I think that will have a big impact on how they react and move forward.

Twin B can surely understand that she won't get into a school, even if she wants to, without sitting the test to get in. How did you handle it at that point in the conversation? If you said " don't worry Twin A will get you in," then I think you need to work hard to undo this idea, it's a dynamic that's bad for both of them. Twin B really should have sat the test and viewed schools she could get into without Twin A. Managing expectations is a hard, but important, part of parenting.

Similarly are you telling A that she should go to the school to get her sister in? If she went to DOA, what would you tell her were the reasons? A white lie about it being a better fit, not getting into HBS etc would be better than telling her it's so her sister could get an unfair leg up.

I think at this point it's less about which school and more about how it's handled, otherwise there will be so much resentment brewing.

I can totally empathise with your predicament. Whilst I do not have twins, I have 4 DC and have done the London 11 plus 4 times and each time, it is not enough time to make decisions, massive lottery, things change and my no 3 and 4 sound like your twins and I have no idea how I would have decided if they were twins. So be kind to yourself. As you cannot foresee the future and do not have all the information, you can only make a decision trying to act in the best interests of both children, in equal measures, to be fair to them. You should not place one above the other. If one does not get their very first choice but that would result in the other being really potentially disadvantaged, making a good choice for both of them is perfectly fine. Both these schools are considered some of the very best in London and I would add Camden School for Girls to that. So really going to DAO is not some big tragedy.

If you’re dtd2 wouldn’t have passed the 11+ how will she actually get on when most of the dc (except siblings) have passed it? It feels like you’re setting up both dc to fail. As a mum of twins this thread is honestly an uncomfortable read.

@TeenLifeMum around 1/3 are admitted via an exam and the rest are not academically selected-they come in via sibling or other routes. I don't think she will feel as if she can't keep up.

The most important question is how bad twin 2's option 3 is, in the worst case scenario.

I think you need to be honest with both twins now.... as you've listed DAO as first choice back in October, one of them will lose out now. The outcome would have been different if you had made the right decision months ago. Apologise for it.

“Our sibling policy applies to multiple birth applicants provided one is offered a place under one of our listed criteria. The other multiple birth sibling/s will then be offered a place under our sibling criterion. If the child offered the original place declines the place offered or accepts a place at a higher preference school the offer to the multiple birth sibling under the sibling criterion will be rescinded.”

This is a different question now than if you’d asked it back in October though surely?

If you’ve already put down DAO for both, then is there any guarantee twin 1 would get into HBS (presumably not?) and presumably it means that twin 2 has little to no chance of getting into a good local comp, so you’re most likely to be left with whatever was the least desirable school in your local area for her? If that is the case then I don’t really see why you’re even contemplating trying to change, or have I misunderstood?

@Araminta1003 where did you find that?

@twindilemma82 it would be lovely to have a crystal ball and see them both happy and thriving at DAO , but your daughter has already told you that she never imagined that you wouldn’t let her go to HBS . If you make her go to DAO there is a high probability that it will ruin your relationship and your daughter’s relationship forever .

This is my understanding too. Twin 2 will have little chance of getting into a good local comp and her education will be badly jeopardised if twin 1 gets what she wants. I wouldn't consider such a scenario.

We know that it's very likely twin 1 would get into HBS through the waiting list. I don't know what twin 2's chances would be of getting into her second ranked school. That's what I need to find out before making a change.

https://damealiceowens.herts.sch.uk/sixth-form/admissions/admissions-faqs/#:~:text=Our%20sibling%20policy%20applies%20to,place%20under%20our%20sibling%20criterion.

https://damealiceowens.herts.sch.uk/sixth-form/admissions/admissions-faqs/#allocation

It is on their website, quite clear.

OP I think get this thread deleted in due course. Too much information. Copy the relevant info over beforehand etc.
And I do not want to stress you out further but is there any chance that your Twin 1 has ASD? And would that change your decision.

Gosh, you guys really let your children rule you! 😂

My DD was adamant she wouldn't go to a school I had to send her to - fast forward two months and she wishes she could go to school 7 days a week 🤣

I don’t think you’re going to get a clear answer on this - how can you as it depends on what everyone else in your local area chooses and gets - and these things vary a lot from year to year. The catchment area for my DC1’s primary went from 1.6 to 0.7 miles in one year, even though the birthrate has fallen and lots of people have moved out of our area of London.

what was your thinking when you put down DAO for both and why has your twin1 not accepted it by now? Did you think you could get your twin2 in on a sibling place by swapping twin1 out at the last minute?

That’s the point. Twin 2 is not stated dao without twin 1 going there as well.

HBS and ASD are actually a good fit, lots of them there as in grammars generally. Anxiety and lack
of confidence is definitely not though.

Our friends had two DC at HBS, both ASD but with different profiles - one couldn't care less about friendship groups and was just absorbed in her own world doing maths, and thrived at HBS. Another one had some anxiety issues and hated her time there.

It's difficult to predict though.

My information might be too old to still be relevant but if Twin 1's only objection to DAO is for social reasons then she might be worrying for no reason. They used to split the year groups into 2 halves with each half having totally different timetables so it makes it difficult to socialise across the halves. In fact, they sometimes moved kids who were struggling with friendships into the other half of the year group to help them.

If the twins were in the different halves then it would be like they could each feel like they were in their own mini school.

Perhaps someone with more recent experience could confirm what the year group set up is now.

My mum sent me to the grammar I hated on first sight. Told me I didn’t get in to the one I wanted. Years later I found out she didn’t even apply to the one I wanted and knowingly sent me to a school I wouldn’t be happy at.

I’m 46 - she’s not forgiven yet and probably never will be. Going to that school gave me a lifelong depression I’ll never shake now. Started on beta blockers at 14. One year after starting at the school.

No my children didn’t rule me , but I wouldn’t have allowed one to sit an exam for a specific school that I knew she would like just to turn round and say ‘well done , you worked really hard but you can’t actually have that place because your sister needs you to get into her choice even though she didn’t bother to do the exams or work ‘ . Can you really not see just how awful that is ? The OPs problem is that she manufactured this mess , if she wanted both children at DAO she should have been clear from the start that nobody was doing the HBS exam . If she had done that then no problem .

And both should have been tutored for and sat the DAO exam so they could both be offered a place on their own merits.

As I said upthread, Twin 1 is being sacrificed so Twin 2 can ride her coat tails.

Hindsight is such a wonderful thing, isn’t it?

In reality, most parents sit a few 11 plus, have no idea really how the kid will do and literally have a few days after results are in, up to a couple of weeks max, to make life changing decisions, without all the information before submitting the Caf on 31.10. And then they weren’t fully aware of eg all admissions rules like sibling priority as the schools keep changing these anyway.

I view it very differently. Twin 1 doesn't want to go to a very good school but wants HBS she has a strong feel about but actually has no real experience of or understanding of the intense competitive culture of the demographics. Twin 2 is likely to end up in option 3 as s result - we don't know how bad the school is but as OP said "we're stuck" I presume it's not great. Twin 2 education will be damaged and I think this is awful. At the same time, there is no 100% guarantee twin 1 will thrive at HBS either - a girl hanged herself there and not because of pressure from the school but as a result of social exclusion and bullying by "studious and unpretentious" girls.

So I view the situation as damaging one child's education badly for some yet uncertain benefits another might get vs letting both children go to a very good school with academic options for one and extra curricular and social options for the other.

Yes, OP made this decision for them initially but I don't blame her - 11+ is a nightmare for everyone.