challenging ridiculous uniform policy

[Clearinguptheclutter]

DS started y7 this week. It appears that it is compulsory for all children to wear a jumper underneath the compulsory blazer. There is an exception for this week only, and from June onwards but all other times they are expected to wear them.

They are allowed to ask to take the blazer off, but apparently not the jumper. In practice teachers we think are more flexible but that is the rule. Certainly when walking around school they are expected to wear both.

Both DH and I think this is completely batshit. As it happens DS is a rule-follower and will probably just go along with it but I just don't understand this reasoning at all. In whose interest is it for kids to be hot and sweaty when learning? Who on earth in the real world wears jumpers underneath suit jackets? From what we can tell the rationale is. a. the kids will look smarter and b. it gives the kids a "collective sense of identity". I rolled my eyes at that.

Anyway I'm also a rule-followed so will just hope it works itself out. DH otoh really wants to challenge it on the basis "why does the school think it can make a collective judgement on if our kids are too hot or not". In the real world if you are too hot, you take a layer off. You don't ask for permission. Obvs there are exemptions for certain professions for good reason. He has a call booked with the head of year to discuss.

Anyway just wondering what others think of this policy if you have them and has anyone ever succesfully challenged?

Or is my DH unreasonable for challenging and we should just shut up and put up. DH is telling DS "there is no need for you wear a jumper unless you want to and if anyone has a problem ask them to call me" which I don't think is terribly helpful. As much as I hate the rule I don't want to encourage DS to break it.

The HOY will not say
Oh thank you Mr x you are absolutely right and we will change our rule neither will the head.
Pointless on your dh part. Did you not read the uniform policy before you signed up?

@cansu the OP said that the jumper was listed but nowhere did it say it was compulsory to wear at all times.

I agree that wearing a jumper when it's hot is daft and unfair. I work in a secondary so know all about uniform rules. However it is clear that people have complained and the school has maintained their position. They are unlikely to budge because the dh is ready to say his piece on the matter. The HOY will be rushed off their feet dealing with important pastoral matters and having a pointless conversation about uniform is not a good use of their time especially as they have zero control over the policy.

They will probably think the OPs dh is a bit of an idiot for making an actual appointment for such a pointless discussion. If he wants to register his annoyance send an email or letter. The head will then send back an email reiterating the policy. Job done and no one has wasted too much time and energy.

School is not the military. DT’s were at a private school and it was non uniform.
Schools need to join the real world and stop using their powers unnecessarily. Rules should be proportional and sensible not something for power crazed teachers to hold over pupils. I’d kick up a huge fuss at some of these stupid schools.

The OP’s DH is being sensible not an idiot. If that’s how teachers respond, no wonder they are loosing respect from pupils and parents.

Exactly this.
Why on earth can't school have sone kids with jumpers on and some without, because that's how they are most comfortable? What's going to happen.
DS lives in T shirt and shorts, and bare feet, all year round at home, he just doesn't feel the cold. I think the only time he wore a jumper at school was when all the doors and windows were open in the winter of covid. DD is the opposite and is always wearing at least one more layer than everyone else. When she wore uniform, she wore a jumper in the winter, DS generally didnt - they both looked smart and had blazers on and complied with their (fairly strict) school uniform.

As an aside, I think blazers and ties are just as unsuitable for practical subjects like art or cookery, as they are for PE but at least you get a sensible alternative for PE!!

The HOY will be rushed off their feet dealing with important pastoral matters and having a pointless conversation about uniform is not a good use of their time especially as they have zero control over the policy.

They will probably think the OPs dh is a bit of an idiot for making an actual appointment for such a pointless discussion. If he wants to register his annoyance send an email or letter. The head will then send back an email reiterating the policy. Job done and no one has wasted too much time and energy.

I constantly read on here, about how overworked teachers are (and don't disbelieve it) and by stealth more safeguarding and other duties that used to be covered by other public services are being included in a schools remit. However I wonder why schools invent and enforce such petty rules when, as you say it creates even more work for teachers to enforce them.

Having lots of strict and pointless uniform rules means more rules to ve broken, or enforced. Of you have rules like you must wear a jumper and a blazer unless it's above x degrees it's not surprising to get some backlash.

And the number of workplaces that require that level of uniform is pretty limited (I wore tshirt, denim shorts and trainers today and worked pretty efficiently)

Yes I think it's ridiculous and I'm so so glad DD's school is not like this.
Imagine adults being forced to work in a jumper and blazer in a hot office?!
I bet the teachers don't wear jumpers and jackets at all times

Have not read the whole thread but it does seem pretty ridiculous. For my kids, it is that wearing a blazer is compulsory and they have to ask to take it off. Wearing a jumper isn't compulsory uniform at all but they can't walk around in just a jumper if they do take the blazer off. It is either blazer+jumper+shirt or just shirt! It's not a hugely strict rule for all of them to be honest.

Parker231
Is it sensible to make an appointment to see someone who has no control over the policy when you also know that others have complained in the past and nothing has changed? If the OP's dh wants to register their view, they can do this without wasting the HOY's time. It's like asking the receptionist for an appointment to discuss the triage system at the GP surgery. They cannot change it for you so why waste their time? All you are doing is finding someone to vent at. You can do that on mumsnet!

the comments 'If you don't like the policy then why did you choose the school?' are so ridiculous
a) who's to say when the exact policy about what items must be worn when is shared? Yes most schools have a uniform list, but seeing 'jumper' and 'blazer' on there doesn't automatically equate to 'both items must be worn at all times.'

b) you really think someone should not send their child to the best school for them, just because they disagree over one (stupid) rule. You think how a uniform is worn should take priority over actual relevant things like nearness, transport, results, extra-curriculars, reputation, subjects, where friends are going, etc?

I have never seen a strict school uniform argument that makes sense.
Prepares you for work? No it doesn't, very few workplaces wear blazers etc now and when did women ever wear ties to work?
Stops bullying - kids aren't stupid, they can tell which kids have money and which don't even if they are wearing the same clothes
Saves money - not with the extortionate costs of uniform
promotes unity - I mean, really? And if this is the case why don't teachers and other staff wear it to?

...C) unless you can afford private school or qualify for a faith school, you are often just awarded the nearest school by the LA regardless of whether it was your first choice anyway.

Who on earth cares if they look "smart" when they are sitting in a classroom!!!
The UK seems to have some really strange rules when it comes to uniforms and the uniforms aren't particularly attractive to begin with. Here, as long as kids are wearing the uniform they can remove jerseys whenever they want to, and many schools don't make blazers compulsory due to the cost of them. Kids wearing jerseys/blazers in the middle of summer is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of.

I agree. I live near a couple of primary schools (not in the UK) and see the kids out playing, and in winter many of them are dressed more for summer! However, the teachers just let them get on with it. Why does the UK have all these nonsensical rules?

I am embarrassed by our uniform policies in the UK. So petty and enforced by ‘jobsworth’ teachers. My kids are at uni now but always said the best teachers, the most dynamic and respected staff ,who got the best results and engagement, were the ones who cared least about trivial stuff like uniform rules.

i wonder if the non uniform policy contributed to the success of DT’s school. No time wasted on policing antiquated uniforms

But we do seem to go for extremes of fashion -more so than other countries - thinking about the recent thread on bum scrunch leggings.
A uniform avoids that.

Being sensible avoids that. At DT’s non uniform school they wore jeans and a hoodie or when it was warmer shorts and T-shirt. Nothing which needed policing.

Do you have any actual facts to support that your first paragraph? The point is that it is schools that are prioritising keeping blazers on in hot weather over teaching and learning. Parents want schools to prioritise teaching and sensible behaviour rules, not pointless rules that actually harm their children's health and ability to learn.

Do you think that, for instance, the school that comes third in the list of the top independent schools based on A level results and Pre U might be said to be amongst the best schools? And yet it has no uniform at all.

If the school has efficient heating, why shouldn't pupils remove blazers and jumpers indoors regardless of the weather outside?

Death is a pretty high bar to being able to challenge a nonsensical rule.

I agree. Enforcing ridiculous and punitive rules doesn’t engender respect. Quite the opposite.

If the head was presented with the very pertinent questions which have been raised in relation to the policy on this thread and simply replied reiterating the policy, he would come over as a total idiot who is unable to justify the policy.

If the head of being useless, I’d escalate to the Governors. I wouldn’t let it rest if it meant my DC’s were stuck having to ask to remove jumpers and blazers. I bet the teachers and head were dressed for the weather rather than inappropriate clothes!

DS just started a school with this rule. And has come home with a noticeable odour every day. Must be very unpleasant in the classrooms. It's been very mild in the SE this week.

I don't understand why the blazer can't be the "compulsory" item (heatwave exceptions aside) and the jumper optional to give the kids some bodily temperature regulating autonomy. Jumpers can easily be shoved in bag.

I have no idea what the kids are meant to do when the weather does turn and (black) winter coats are compulsory over the blazer outside of school but no lockers or place to hang them. Do they have to carry thick wet coats around with them all day as well as bags with full day books and potentially PE kit, musical instruments?