challenging ridiculous uniform policy

[Clearinguptheclutter]

DS started y7 this week. It appears that it is compulsory for all children to wear a jumper underneath the compulsory blazer. There is an exception for this week only, and from June onwards but all other times they are expected to wear them.

They are allowed to ask to take the blazer off, but apparently not the jumper. In practice teachers we think are more flexible but that is the rule. Certainly when walking around school they are expected to wear both.

Both DH and I think this is completely batshit. As it happens DS is a rule-follower and will probably just go along with it but I just don't understand this reasoning at all. In whose interest is it for kids to be hot and sweaty when learning? Who on earth in the real world wears jumpers underneath suit jackets? From what we can tell the rationale is. a. the kids will look smarter and b. it gives the kids a "collective sense of identity". I rolled my eyes at that.

Anyway I'm also a rule-followed so will just hope it works itself out. DH otoh really wants to challenge it on the basis "why does the school think it can make a collective judgement on if our kids are too hot or not". In the real world if you are too hot, you take a layer off. You don't ask for permission. Obvs there are exemptions for certain professions for good reason. He has a call booked with the head of year to discuss.

Anyway just wondering what others think of this policy if you have them and has anyone ever succesfully challenged?

Or is my DH unreasonable for challenging and we should just shut up and put up. DH is telling DS "there is no need for you wear a jumper unless you want to and if anyone has a problem ask them to call me" which I don't think is terribly helpful. As much as I hate the rule I don't want to encourage DS to break it.

I teach and I think the current fad for blazers, shirt, jumpers and ties is way OTT. Our school has this but we allow pupils to remove them in class but put back on at the end, which is a decent compromise. Still batshit uniform though.

I much preferred logo’d jumper and polo shirt which my DD wore years ago. Comfortable and tidy (and polos are a damn sight easier to wash and care for).

This would be awful for DD. She barely wears her jumper all year. (Primary so not blazers yet). She would boil!

It’s a bit late to be worrying about this now. As @SleepGoalsJumped says, you should have chosen another school if you wanted a more relaxed uniform policy.

You may find in that, in the past, kids were getting sloppy with school uniform, which had an overall detrimental effect on behaviour and learning in the school, so by tightening up the school uniform policy, standards improved overall. Zero tolerance and all that.

I think your DH is right and the world needs awkward fuckers to argue and make a fuss.

Unfortunately some schools have thoroughly stupid policies. Parents provide an important challenge.

So let your DH make a fuss. I'm the meantime, your DS should follow the idiotic rule for an easy life.

Oh god. IME this kind of obsessive uniform wearing can often start with a group or groups of parents who seem as if they want their kids to look as though they go to an expensive pre-prep rather than the bog standard village primary .
We had quite a battle with such a group, (plus an over-reaching deputy head) who wanted to make blazers compulsory in our aforementioned bog standard primary.
The uniform was grey skirt or trousers, white shirt plus blue sweatshirt with school logo, and very nice it was too. But not enough for some, blazers were 'smart' and somehow 'aspirational.'
Luckily the idea was shot down due to cost concerns from other parents, which the governors took on board.

kids were getting sloppy with school uniform, which had an overall detrimental effect on behaviour and learning in the school this is absolute bollocks.

This would not work in the North East. DS never wears a jumper or a coat (or even a long-sleeved shirt) even when it is freezing. 🤦‍♀️

Hopefully the teachers are flexible.

I don't think the argument of 'why did you pick that school?' is helpful. Unless you are in a city you probably don't have loads of secondaries to choose from. By the time you've ruled out ones you are unlikely to get a place at, ones that are physically impossible to get child to (based on where the council runs buses to or maybe where a parent might be driving to on way to work) and hopefully thought about which ones have an overall ethos that might suit the child, the specific detail of the uniform policy is really unlikely to be part of the choice (if it is even available to prospective parents). The only exception would be if it is part of an overall super strict zero tolerance type approach in general which was clear in advance was part of the school culture.

How is wearing a jumper going to cause mental or physical well being issues?

I hope all the teachers have to wear jumpers too.
But I doubt it.

Completely batshit, but here we are.
I wouldn't challenge it individually, it needs a collective challenge from PTA and kids really.

It must make the post lunch coma a fact of life

You may find in that, in the past, kids were getting sloppy with school uniform, which had an overall detrimental effect on behaviour and learning in the school

Yes, it's well known that people can only behave and take in information when wearing a school uniform.

Being too hot for long periods is not good for your physical well-being, obviously.

Being forced to comply with stupid rules that are not good for your physical well-being is not good for your mental well-being.

Honestly I would wait and see when/ if it’s a problem first.

Yes exactly. This is why no one ever passes an exam in Europe, or in sixth form, or university.

@WeekendFreedom wearing a jumper can make a person too hot. How can you concentrate if you're hot and sweaty.
On pre-teen children this may cause BO which in turn may cause embarrassment.
Children with sensory issues may feel restricted and like they are wearing a straight jacket.
The cuffs can cause irritation and that's all the child can focus on.
I'd say that jumpers can easily cause mental and physical issues for some children.

If DH is going to cause aggro I would try to by-pass the problem completely by putting DS in a different school. It’s not really fair on DS otherwise.

Is it still sensible to make them wear jumpers and blazers if there is a heatwave in September or May?

FFS

But are the posters who keep saying "why did you choose that school, then" aware that in some locations there is only one in catchment and there is no real choice?

Is that the limit of your ambition for schools, that their pupils should stay alive? No chance of, for instance, being able to learn unhindered by being overheated?

I am so glad I no longer have school age children, but I do have 5 grandchildren - primary school years 4, 1, 1, foundation and youngest started preschool this week. The other 4 all go to the same primary school and there’s no issues with school uniform policy.
But I do remember when my younger daughter was in Year 10 and we were told the school uniform policy was changing and that she could no longer wear white polo shirts - it had to be white school blouses/shirts. I rang the head and told him no way was I buying her new blouses for 1 year plus as she had (still has) eczema there wasn’t enough give in said blouses so they’d irritate her skin at armpits and inside elbows. He told me sorry but it was the new rule and she’d be sent home if found not to be wearing a blouse - she never was! Pupils/teenagers have enough stress with exams etc without having ridiculous school uniform rules.

Why should they have to ask permission to remove a jumper when it's too hot? It's a totally unnecessary interruption to the lesson.

Only this morning I was pondering rules made up for the sake of them. Rules should have a reason, and if they don't, then they are pointless and make even reasonable rules less likely to be complied with. I remembered how my DD got into trouble for not taking her PE kit to school one day as she was on crutches and didn't think she would need it. Wrong - anyone suffering from an injury was still expected to change into their PE kit and watch from the sidelines, even if (as in her case) that meant struggling to get trousers over a heavily bandaged ankle and vice versa. (Heaven help anyone with their arm in a sling...)
No words of wisdom for the OP, other than when youngest DD attended the same school years later it appeared that said daft rule had been dispensed with. I suspect you could trace the obsession with wearing jumpers back to a single member of the staff or SLT, their "pet project" so to speak, and when they eventually leave then "their" rule gets quietly buried, too. 🙄