challenging ridiculous uniform policy

[Clearinguptheclutter]

DS started y7 this week. It appears that it is compulsory for all children to wear a jumper underneath the compulsory blazer. There is an exception for this week only, and from June onwards but all other times they are expected to wear them.

They are allowed to ask to take the blazer off, but apparently not the jumper. In practice teachers we think are more flexible but that is the rule. Certainly when walking around school they are expected to wear both.

Both DH and I think this is completely batshit. As it happens DS is a rule-follower and will probably just go along with it but I just don't understand this reasoning at all. In whose interest is it for kids to be hot and sweaty when learning? Who on earth in the real world wears jumpers underneath suit jackets? From what we can tell the rationale is. a. the kids will look smarter and b. it gives the kids a "collective sense of identity". I rolled my eyes at that.

Anyway I'm also a rule-followed so will just hope it works itself out. DH otoh really wants to challenge it on the basis "why does the school think it can make a collective judgement on if our kids are too hot or not". In the real world if you are too hot, you take a layer off. You don't ask for permission. Obvs there are exemptions for certain professions for good reason. He has a call booked with the head of year to discuss.

Anyway just wondering what others think of this policy if you have them and has anyone ever succesfully challenged?

Or is my DH unreasonable for challenging and we should just shut up and put up. DH is telling DS "there is no need for you wear a jumper unless you want to and if anyone has a problem ask them to call me" which I don't think is terribly helpful. As much as I hate the rule I don't want to encourage DS to break it.

@Clearinguptheclutter
@carrotcard

its a bloody stupid rule, along with the blazers having to be worn in the summer. (Whilst the teachers are in cool tops). I know the teachers don't write the rules!

they'd have to be ok with scraping me off the ground a couple of times a day, giving mr time to recover in a cool place & possibly needing to go home.

I think you can indeed join an institution and start challenging their rules. Otherwise surely nothing would ever change and loads of nonsensical traditions would stay in place forever.

At my old school the rule was trousers for boys, skirts for girls. Lots of girls wanted to wear trousers. There was a student protest and the rules were changed to allow girls to wear trousers.

Since when did being affected by overheating make anyone a neurotic wimp? Do you take iff unnecessary amounts of warm clothing in hot weather? If so, are you a wimp?

OK, that is one instance you have provided of an equally stupid rule being applied outside schools, and at least there is some sort of purpose to it, i.e. to look smart and all the same. In schools what is needed is that pupils learn, not that they all look the same.

I went to a private school and we were free at all times to decide whether to wear a jumper or not. We did have blazers, but people only wore them occasionally when going out of school in warm weather, never during the normal school day. My understanding is that it is generally the case in private schools that pupils are allowed to make their own decisions about these things. I suspect that academies are stricter because they think it impresses parents, and it's much easier to impose and enforce pointless uniform rules than to ensure good teaching and learning.

There really is no correlation. The school you are talking about notoriously achieves those grades by having a very narrow curriculum, and managing out children with learning difficulties; they also teach pupils to churn out stock answers rather than think for themselves.

A much more accurate comparison is grades in other countries which do not have uniforms at all. If your principle was correct, you would expect them to be noticeably worse than ours. Guess what, they aren't, and in many instances they get better results.

What a stupid rule! I'm not in the UK and I've never heard of this ridiculous nonsense about not being able to take parts of the uniform off whatever the weather. It's early spring here and the local kids are already wandering around minus jerseys (and hardly any wear blazers). Having to ask to take a blazer off? Madness. I would be challenging.

It's a batshit rule. Why do some schools do stuff like this?

@SammyScrounge you've never heard of autism then?
Many people with autism have sensory issues.

I hate, LOATHE, my DS's secondary school uniform and its rules that made DS feel physically ill in the heat of the summer term (south east).
I have challenged. Went to Head teacher, long challenging yet polite discussion with him. Wrote to governors. Cited dozens of mums who agreed with me. Explained that I believe it is an infringement on their human rights to be boiling hot, sweating, rivers of sweat down their backs and foreheads in class, yet told they cannot remove thick nylon/polyester blazers and ties holding their stiff collars closely round their necks so that no air can circulate around their upper bodies.
Got nowhere.
Absolutely nowhere.
All I heard was 'Pupils must be smart'.
Well, adults can be smart yet choose cool clothing.
The teachers at DS's school don't wear ties and blazers in the stuffy classrooms in hot weather.
It's cruel.
Academy school where all the Headteacher does is go on and on and on about the importance of smart uniform yet doesn't tackle the behaviour or learning issues.

There's the school's ethos then. Style over substance. Deliberate discomfort is hardly conducive to learning or wellbeing.

i have no issue with jumpers per se but the problem is they are apparently not allowed to take it off

This is a bit of an odd one. Most schools with blazers and jumpers have the opposite rule- in that blazers have to stay on but jumpers can be removed if warm in class.

Personally I think this makes more sense as blazers look smarter. DS’s school has compulsory blazer all year round (which can only be removed in class if the headteacher gives permission) and compulsory jumper in winter term (which teachers can give permission to remove).

I don’t have an issue with requiring permission to remove as it’s good discipline and the uniform doesn’t look particularly smart if some DC just remove it whenever they feel like. I wouldn’t advise your DH making a fuss but perhaps a good compromise could be making the blazer compulsory while the jumper can be removed?

Why is looking smart more important than learning?

I agree its a stupid rule (I think excessive compulsory branded uniform in state schools is wrong anyway, but that's another thread...)
Im pretty sure most work places wouldn't impose such strict rules unless there were health and safety reasons for wearing particular items.

however I have noticed that schools often start off being much stricter about rules at the beginning of the school year, and then taper off.
DDs sixth form issued loads of warnings to pupils about skirts that were too short at the beginning of year 12, and insisted on knee length or just above, by half term most girls were wearing skirts that barely covered their bum with no consequences (apart from potentially being cold! 😉)

Same here.
DSD got home on one summer day and complaint how hot they are. The school policy says they can taken them off when temperatures are 31 and over. We explained to her the importance of following the rules etc. And TBF she is a rule
Follower, HOWEVER, she then says - well teachers are coming in wearing short sleeves and sandals and we have to bake in black tights and blazers.

Yes child... we agree, this is bonkers and kinda demoralising 😅 couldn't argue with her logics. But nothing we could say either. She just suck it up till end of school year.

@MindTheGap099

Imposing a temperature threshold is an interesting approach and I suppose ensures fairness and consistency.

Is your DD allowed to take her blazer off in class all the time or only when it reaches 31C?

Wow 31! But even below 31 is short sleeve weather!

Many parents challenged it, that's when the headteacher have send an email around explaining the "policy". They did say that they can take them off in class, but, nevertheless they still had to wear them during break time. The school she attends consist of multiple buildings so even when moving from classroom A to classroom B they had to wear them. Absolute madness.

Both my kids got chilblains during covid when all the doors and windows had to be open all day and they had to eat outside (even when it was-1°)
I asked if they could wear boots eg Dr marten style but was told no. Teachers were allowed to wear boots, coats etc
And they had a big drive on uniform after the shops had been closed! Because obvs the most important thing about being back at school was looking smart

Absolutely!!! I mean when the temperature even reach 31 in the U.K. ? Not very often... i agree with all the other policies like shoes, hair etc etc. That is v important in my opinion, but the blazer policy is truly crazy.

I’ve always been of the opinion that if you choose a school you choose to agree with the rules of the school but I’ve come to learn that it’s not that simple.

We live semi rurally which means we don’t realistically have a choice of secondary school. There is one school (3.5 miles away)and there are a number of dedicated school buses to this school. The next nearest school is over 8 miles away with no transport available.

So for a lot of people it’s suck it up. I think uniform requirements that require a shirt and tie are pretty archaic anyway and to insist on jumpers AND blazers is ridiculous (and fucking expensive).

what does it teach a child that they must ask before removing a jumper? Never in the world of work, even in jobs with uniforms, have I had to ask to remove a jumper. What temperature are the classrooms kept at where they need to wear a jumper and a blazer? I can’t believe the teachers are bundled up in so many layers.

Sometimes I’m glad my kids had SEN so went to school with polo shirts and sweatshirts. Much more practical! 🤣

@ClockwiseHoneysuckle I have to say I’m not sure blazers stop DC from learning in the weather we have in the U.K.! I suspect the opposite if anything.

Ime when schools have laxer rules, DC get into the habit of removing blazers in lessons when it’s not necessary due to temperature. The approach at the DC’s school works well as jumpers can be removed if a particular room is exceptionally warm but they all look smart with their blazers on.

I know the head has commented that it looks so much better when he walks around lessons with all DC sitting with their blazers on rather than some being scrawled across chairs or on the floor etc.

I've just come from my local library.
The type of slightly warm and stuffy place that is similar to how schools feel.
I am wearing a t-shirt.
I was sweltering in there. Luckily being an adult I could drink water which made me feel a bit cooler.
I also felt sleepy. I was reading a book - trying to take in the words and information. I could feel my eyelids going as I was so warm and stuffy.
I am so glad I am not a school student. I would be suffering every day if I had to wear a fricking jumper.

@LaughingPig surely the priority though is that they are learning and understanding the lesson?
Why does it matter so much to look so formal?
Answer.....it doesn't !

Sounds like a totally pointless rule to me - surely secondary age kids should be allowed some freedom of decision making. I'd be tempted to challenge but probably only when there's been an issue related to it like a detention. But dont see why parents cant question the rules...

Also don't understand point in blazers (or ties for schools that wear them) either tbh, most people dont wear suit jackets to work these days if its meant to get kids 'work ready'. Useful for carrying pens but thats about it id say...