challenging ridiculous uniform policy

[Clearinguptheclutter]

DS started y7 this week. It appears that it is compulsory for all children to wear a jumper underneath the compulsory blazer. There is an exception for this week only, and from June onwards but all other times they are expected to wear them.

They are allowed to ask to take the blazer off, but apparently not the jumper. In practice teachers we think are more flexible but that is the rule. Certainly when walking around school they are expected to wear both.

Both DH and I think this is completely batshit. As it happens DS is a rule-follower and will probably just go along with it but I just don't understand this reasoning at all. In whose interest is it for kids to be hot and sweaty when learning? Who on earth in the real world wears jumpers underneath suit jackets? From what we can tell the rationale is. a. the kids will look smarter and b. it gives the kids a "collective sense of identity". I rolled my eyes at that.

Anyway I'm also a rule-followed so will just hope it works itself out. DH otoh really wants to challenge it on the basis "why does the school think it can make a collective judgement on if our kids are too hot or not". In the real world if you are too hot, you take a layer off. You don't ask for permission. Obvs there are exemptions for certain professions for good reason. He has a call booked with the head of year to discuss.

Anyway just wondering what others think of this policy if you have them and has anyone ever succesfully challenged?

Or is my DH unreasonable for challenging and we should just shut up and put up. DH is telling DS "there is no need for you wear a jumper unless you want to and if anyone has a problem ask them to call me" which I don't think is terribly helpful. As much as I hate the rule I don't want to encourage DS to break it.

am really not getting the "they must look smart thing". I mean ideally yes but surely being comfortable is more conducive to learning. Heads who think that looking smart is most important would presumably have a heart attack if they visited my (very professional) workplace where today at least, we are here in shorts, flip flops and summer dresses. And we have aircon so can't even play the 'too hot' card.

pleased that we're not the only people, sorrry you didn't get anywhere and I fully expect DH to have a similar expereince.
I agree it's cruel but DH's main objection is how is it the school's place to decide whether whether or not our child needs to wear a jumper that week or not (today for example there is an exemption, I suspect not next week). Everyone's temperature tolerance is different. Can children really not make their own decisions on this? I am broadly ok with the blazers, as it is official policy that they can take them off in class.

Totally agree.

It really annoys me in primary school to be honest when the adult in the playground tells my child to put her coat on!
She doesn't feel the cold like me and why should someone put a coat on when they're not cold?!?
God it really annoys me that

That’s insane. I remember hearing about a school down the road like this when I was a child. Having to ask to take a blazer off?! What on earth.

Meanwhile my school didn’t have blazers, we could put our jumpers on and off as we pleased and it got the best results in the county by a mile, on a par with the private schools.

@Clearinguptheclutter

I think the key point is that a uniform has to be uniform and schools can’t have some DC with jumpers off and some on. I would be surprised if the headteacher backed down but it might be worth asking if the policy could be amended so that jumpers can be removed but not blazers.

I am very surprised that the school have allowed an exemption in the first week of term. I’d have thought they’d want to get the new students used to wearing full uniform at this stage.

We're talking about children not being able to take blazers and jumpers off on hot days. You can't deny that we have those, given that we have had days that reached record temperatures in recent years. Why should children be hindered in learning when they feel hot?

Why does it matter if children take a blazer off when an adult deems it isn't necessary? It's well known that people have different perceptions of cold; the fact that a teacher doesn't feel too hot doesn't mean that pupils in the class are not uncomfortably hot and prevented from concentrating properly on learning.

Why on earth is the head obsessing about what classes look like rather than what pupils are learning in those classes? Sounds like a total idiot to me.

And this is why people don't send their kids to school and either just have them absent or home school. This is why kids mental health is on the floor.

It is pathetic and all to do with control and to look flashy etc......... it should be banned for schools to dictate like this. My youngest would be sick if she gets too hot (it's happened 3 times before) so they would be clearing up a lot of sick from her as she runs hot anyway and never wears a jumper.

Why can't schools have some pupils with jumpers off and some on? What harm can it possibly do? What is this obsession with looking smart rather than learning well? I went through education in a good school that allowed us to make our own choices, and guess what, we all did fine in school, in getting qualfications, and in our subsequent careers.

Workspaces manage perfectly successfully with people choosing whether they want a jumper, cardigan or jacket on or not, and indeed whether they wear long or short sleeves, skirts or trousers, shoes or boots, etc. A school won't fall apart if it allows pupils to decide whether they're warm or not.

Should we be asking about this at open evenings?

@purpleme12 definitely ask about it.

How on earth did they come to choose 31 degrees as the cut off point? I'm too hot at 25 degrees. If, say, I worked somewhere that insisted I wear a jumper when the temperature is above that, I'd be making a massive fuss about health and safety; if they wouldn't remedy it, I would be instituting a full grievance procedure prior to taking constructive dismissal action.

Have you asked the school what research they did before fixing on 31 degrees? I strongly suspect child health experts would have something to say.

Ime the best schools are those which have strict and clear discipline, including on uniform.

If parents want to prioritise ensuring their DC are allowed to remove blazers in 5C weather over excellent behaviour and teaching, that is up to them. However, it will be their DC who pay the price.

This is exactly the way to get kids to have no respect for any rules, if some rules are this stupid they’ve already lost any respect for those in authority, it defeats the object.

My suggestion might be to start with this

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hot-weather-and-health-supporting-vulnerable-people/looking-after-children-and-those-in-early-years-settings-during-heatwaves-for-teachers-and-professionals#:~:text=Uniform%20rules%20should%20be%20relaxed,shade%20as%20much%20as%20possible.

I would suggest contacting the Health and Safety Executive for advice and support

The rules where my GD goes are the same. Also, they aren't allowed to wear a winter coat without a blazer as well!

@JohnofWessex

Have to day in not sure what relevance heatwave guidance has on 99% of days in the U.K. The OP has explained that the headteacher allowed removal of jumpers in exceptionally hot weather.

Heatwave guidance does not give carte blanche for students to not follow uniform rules by removing their blazers/jumpers on a cold day in January, as some seem to be advocating.

@LaughingPig yes but different people are affected by how hot it is in different ways.
As I have said I personally can be warm and sweaty even on a "cold day in January" and really would be uncomfortable wearing a jumper.

By what metric are those the "best schools"?

@Fluufer

Michaela achieved a higher proportion of grade 9s at GCSE than many independents, on a much more diverse intake. I believe they expect DC in blazer and jumper all year round and I don’t imagine they allow removal.

Most people have little choice over which school to select. Being comfortable during the school day is vital and definitely worth taking up with the school and Governors.
Would you sit in a warm room with 30 other people without taking your jumper and coat off?

No school pupil should ever have to ask to take off their jumper or blazer.

What do you class as the best school?

DT’s were at an academically high achieving international school (in the uk). Little behaviour issues and no school uniform. Time wasn’t wasted on upholding ridiculous uniform policies.

This is an issue a friend of mine is having. At the school her daughter attends, girls MUST wear the school skirt. Obviously this isn't a standard buy at the supermarket skirt but a specific pattern/design only available from a specific supplier, at an inflated price.
The issue she has is that this very specific skirt comes in two lengths. It doesn't have an adjustable waist. The longest length is too short for her tall daughter.
Her daughter keeps getting into trouble for her skirt being too short.

Why the girl can't wear trousers is beyond me. But that's the school rules. Ridiculous, inflexible, and not serving any purpose to forward education.

Exactly! I, similarly to another poster, like to have my windows at home open all year round. When at work it can be stifling for me but I dress appropriately to me so not to make other people cold by having the windows open. To not be able to take off a jumper any time of year when you feel hot is an absolutely ridiculous rule.

Why shouldn’t someone remove their blazer and jumper in January if it makes them more comfortable. Do you wear clothes which make you uncomfortable?

@LaughingPig I believe Micheala only offers a rather small selection of GCSEs compared to many other schools.
It is popular among those who want that type of school so is oversubscribed so there will be no pupils there who were stuck there because it was the only place left in the borough.
Every pupil there will be there out of (their parents) choice.
That will have a difference on pupil behaviour and exam grades.