challenging ridiculous uniform policy

[Clearinguptheclutter]

DS started y7 this week. It appears that it is compulsory for all children to wear a jumper underneath the compulsory blazer. There is an exception for this week only, and from June onwards but all other times they are expected to wear them.

They are allowed to ask to take the blazer off, but apparently not the jumper. In practice teachers we think are more flexible but that is the rule. Certainly when walking around school they are expected to wear both.

Both DH and I think this is completely batshit. As it happens DS is a rule-follower and will probably just go along with it but I just don't understand this reasoning at all. In whose interest is it for kids to be hot and sweaty when learning? Who on earth in the real world wears jumpers underneath suit jackets? From what we can tell the rationale is. a. the kids will look smarter and b. it gives the kids a "collective sense of identity". I rolled my eyes at that.

Anyway I'm also a rule-followed so will just hope it works itself out. DH otoh really wants to challenge it on the basis "why does the school think it can make a collective judgement on if our kids are too hot or not". In the real world if you are too hot, you take a layer off. You don't ask for permission. Obvs there are exemptions for certain professions for good reason. He has a call booked with the head of year to discuss.

Anyway just wondering what others think of this policy if you have them and has anyone ever succesfully challenged?

Or is my DH unreasonable for challenging and we should just shut up and put up. DH is telling DS "there is no need for you wear a jumper unless you want to and if anyone has a problem ask them to call me" which I don't think is terribly helpful. As much as I hate the rule I don't want to encourage DS to break it.

Harris Academy by any chance? My DC also have this rule, I agree it's bonkers. However I went in specifically to ask about it because I thought it was so ridiculous, only to be told that it wasn't compulsory at all.
They have many uniform rules that seem a bit out-there, for example having to change into white socks for PE 🙄

Punishing someone for not wearing a jumper because they were uncomfortable in it is just bloody ridiculous.
Maybe he fixed the grades, they do that too when they're so controlling.
I wonder is there a dress code for teachers too

Personally, I'd see how it plays out in practice before going in all guns blazing. It may be a non issue- it may also be that the classrooms are cold enough that your son wants to wear a jumper pretty much full time anyway over winter!

If you find by, say, October half term, that it's causing major problems, I'd raise it then.

FWIW, I do think it's silly, and as a teacher I do tend to ignore the more extreme end of uniform rules in my classroom! I'm far more interested in whether they have the right kit to participate in the lesson than whether they have the right coloured socks on!

Seriously, how stupid is that, white socks for PE whoever made that one up what difference does it make to the lesson.
This strictness with uniform is just ridiculous.
Britain,Malta and Ireland are the only countries in Europe where children wear school uniform.

The logic is that kids have a clean pair of socks to change into for sport and then aren't left wearing sweaty, wet and muddy socks from PE for the rest of the day.

Some people love rules, no matter how arbitrary, they think it gives them some moral high ground to blindly follow baseless policies. It's a well-known psychological phenomena where people will defend the status quo regardless of whether it genuinely benefits them or not.
So many countries across Europe don't have uniform in school and do far better than us in the education league tables.

factcheckni.org/articles/are-the-uk-and-ireland-outliers-within-europe-because-children-are-made-to-wear-school-uniforms/

No logic in bloody white socks though for sports or doing PE in rain 🙄

In the real world of the military they are wearing Tunics in hot weather if on parade. Private school pupils wear the uniform they are told to wear and they manage but little Albie from the local secondary can't possibly follow the rules because he is so so special and his mummy will make sure everyone knows it.

It's probably so they can save on the heating bill.

Yeah sounds ridiculous, should be optional depending on if you feel cold or not ! My son had just gone into yr 7 too and it's compulsory blazer optional jumper

White socks makes it obvious that they've got a clean pair to change into (and back again). And it's pretty hard to do most outdoors sport through winter without encountering a single bit of damp soil or the occasional puddle - unless you're suggesting they don't need access to outside and should stop offering football, rugby, cross country running, hockey, lacrosse or netball?

People love a power trip. It’s probably to stop kids looking scruffy and saving the battle of asking them to tuck their shirt in repeatedly. This way you can’t see the issue and so there is no battle.

My rule in my class is “you know if you’re not or cold so remove your blazer if you need to”. There is nothing more irritating than being in the middle of teaching to see a hand go up and it being a question to remove the blazer. I can lose my train of thought and it’s just a distraction. The school rule is to ask but I tell my class they don’t need to - just like they don’t need to ask to have a drink. I tell them this at the start of the year. Pointless rules like this annoy me. This is probably why I’ll never make the cut to be SLT.

It's a female and how can you fix gcse results? Her name is Katharine Birbalsingh, maybe have a Google.

Teachers dress smart, they don't need to dress as a child. They have already been to school.

@ThisHangryPinkBalonz I suppose in theory you can "fix" GCSE grades by being very picky about who attends the school........🤔

Appreciate the differing points of view

DH has assured me that he has no intention of going in “all guns ablazing” but rather to understand the reasoning for it (!) and how it works in practice if children are too warm. If he doesn’t get satisfactory answers then he will go further, I imagine by writing to the head. On the Facebook page there appear to be a very large cohort of parents that disagree with the policy (and a smaller number who do, Tbf) but I’m not sure at all who has actually asked these questions.

It was the same when I was at school! Sad to see things haven’t changed. It was bullshit then and it’s bullshit now!

It's bonkers.
On the other hand, there was a running issue at dcs school that they had to wear a blazer and were not allowed to wear a jumper ever, under any circs. It was a freezing 1950s building at the end of its life.
They did relent eventually.

Bit hard if it's a state school. It's not like she excluded half the school and it was a big inner city school with lots of kids in poverty, so for their gcses to improve massively there must be something in it.

My personal experience at school- I was a "delight" in some lessons because teachers weren't strict enough, as were my friends, and we / our class was very distracted. However, was a stark difference, when you knew your teacher was going to take away your hoops, make you tuck in your shirt etc.

Also it doesn't help when your parents say, I think it's ridiculous because then you think you are untouchable.

Thank goodness my secondary school didnt have this stupid rule. It was pretty relaxed with uniform and we didn't have blazers. We did have jumpers but they were not compulsory. And thank goodness because I was always too hot. I remember a 6th form science lesson where we had the bunsen burners on. I was wearing just a vest and literally dripping in sweat and the teacher sent me out to cool down as she didn't think I was safe to continue the lesson because I couldn't concentrate I was so warm. It was pre-exams so would have been before June.

There are very few uniforms at work where it is compulsory to wear 2 or 3 layers. Only perhaps in roles where things are worn for safety. I can't see any good reason for needing to wear all 3 layers. And not even being allowed to decide for yourself when you're too hot. And in terms of 'collective identity' the school should just get logo shirts if they're that worried.

Seriously that is so stupid that you wouldn't know the socks were dirty unless they were white🙄.
I didn't suggest tha at all, nothing at all wrong with sports at anytime of the year but they don't need to go out in the rain they're not training for England, most schools have halls that can be used.
But the point is the uniform rules are stupid.

I don't think this is true about private schools, at least it didn't used to be. They have blazers, jumpers, ties, all the rest of it but it is usually up to them to remove their blazer if they are hot, or choose to just wear a shirt on a summer's day, or go in a jumper and coat with no blazer in winter. State schools introduced the strict uniforms as they thought it aspirational, and what many parents were asking for, but they seem to enforce it in a more authoritarian manner.

Who suggested that they need to dress a child? I didn't anyway.
I actually don't care enough to Google the name.
Uniform has no influence on behaviour or academic performance it's ridiculous to be so strict about it.
Time to get rid of homework too.

When I went to school I went to a private school and we had like a sleeveless jumper on over our shirts as our uniform. You had to keep that on I remember that. But it was sleeveless.

To be honest I don’t think this type of rule is particularly obvious when you are applying for schools.

No wonder this country produces so many neurotic wimps.