challenging ridiculous uniform policy

[Clearinguptheclutter]

DS started y7 this week. It appears that it is compulsory for all children to wear a jumper underneath the compulsory blazer. There is an exception for this week only, and from June onwards but all other times they are expected to wear them.

They are allowed to ask to take the blazer off, but apparently not the jumper. In practice teachers we think are more flexible but that is the rule. Certainly when walking around school they are expected to wear both.

Both DH and I think this is completely batshit. As it happens DS is a rule-follower and will probably just go along with it but I just don't understand this reasoning at all. In whose interest is it for kids to be hot and sweaty when learning? Who on earth in the real world wears jumpers underneath suit jackets? From what we can tell the rationale is. a. the kids will look smarter and b. it gives the kids a "collective sense of identity". I rolled my eyes at that.

Anyway I'm also a rule-followed so will just hope it works itself out. DH otoh really wants to challenge it on the basis "why does the school think it can make a collective judgement on if our kids are too hot or not". In the real world if you are too hot, you take a layer off. You don't ask for permission. Obvs there are exemptions for certain professions for good reason. He has a call booked with the head of year to discuss.

Anyway just wondering what others think of this policy if you have them and has anyone ever succesfully challenged?

Or is my DH unreasonable for challenging and we should just shut up and put up. DH is telling DS "there is no need for you wear a jumper unless you want to and if anyone has a problem ask them to call me" which I don't think is terribly helpful. As much as I hate the rule I don't want to encourage DS to break it.

If there are children whose parents can’t afford the basics then making them buy a blazer and a jumper seems downright cruel. I’m not sure what that has to do with children that leave expensive things and don’t bother collecting them, why does it matter that there is lots of stuff in the lost property? That’s what lost property is for, if not claimed by end of year donate to charity.

@Clearinguptheclutter as I said a couple of comments back I didn't bother to buy my daughter the secondary jumper because I knew she'd never wear it.
If it didn't say "compulsory" on the list how were you meant to know?

It was batshit rules like this that led DD to go back to home education after wanting to go to secondary school. Well that and she hated the lessons, found them boring in comparison to the internet school, who also, in her words "treat us like people". Schools are run more and more like military institutions now and yet children are increasingly having problems....

@NeverDropYourMooncup maybe all parents should have to sign an agreement form before their children start.....
"All items my child brings to school are the responsibility of my child and if lost then tough luck. Lost items might turn up in Lost Property but if they don't there is nothing the school can do".
Well maybe not exactly those words 😂
Students should sign a similar one.....
"If I bring something it's my responsibility and if I then lose it I should look in Lost Property. If it's not there then I should have not lost it in the first place".
Or words to that effect.......

The parents who don't feel a need to ensure their kids are warm are very different to those who find it difficult to afford items of uniform.

Things being abandoned/lost shows that stuff isn't looked after by all kids even when their parents have spent considerable sums on equipping them. You can't lose a jumper/tie/blazer/pair of shoes if it's physically on the kid's body.

The uncollected clothing already goes to the kids that are from financially pressured homes or are being neglected the following year, along with anything donated by leavers. It doesn't get passed on earlier because a. somebody might finally remember that there's a lost property area right next to their classroom and think to ask if anybody's handed in a jumper and b. if they're given out to kids who can't be bothered to look after things their parents have paid for, there won't be anything left for kids who genuinely need it.

Join the governing body - effect change from within.

Challenging from outside is just pissing in the wind.

But then they would still have to deal with the umpteen cases of jumpers that have been mislaid/stolen etc, students disrupting lessons to go back for them and notes from parents asking for help in finding said item which particularly with year 7s unused to moving from room to room can cause significant disruption and waste huge amounts of teacher time.

Insisting everyone wears them between lessons I'd the quick efficient way of avoiding this.

Unless of course, no-one wears jumpers in which case there will be a group of parents complaining that their child is always cold!

@EducatingArti see the post I wrote above about parents/students having to sign an agreement - "If items are lost it's not the schools problem".
A child that says they've lost something they should only be allowed to go and look in lost property before/after school or during breaks.

It's not unreasonable to challenge it but I doubt you will get anywhere. It is unusual to have a compulsory jumper with an optional blazer, it's usually the other way round. I don't agree with any of it and think uniforms should be similar to primary, if anything.

Neither is optional! But blazers can be taken off in class. Apparently not the jumpers but we’ll see.

Good luck with challenging it, it isn't an inclusive policy at all. All those layers would be a nightmare for anyone with sensory difficulties, not to mention those who just run hot.

Overheated in September through to June? Blimey, climate change eh 😂

Following rules and decent punishments for those that can't follow them, do improve grades. Look at the impressive grade improvements from who the media classed as the most strict headteacher.

@ThisHangryPinkBalonz well I've spent all of today (about 20 degrees, lots of rain) in just a t-shirt because I'm permanently warm. About October or November I might start wearing a cardigan 😂. I don't own an actual winter coat. I have just a pac-a-mac.
Because I'm always bloody boiling.
Is it climate change? Or because I happen to be a naturally warm person?

If he's a governor, hopefully he knows how to challenge constructively rather than being "Mr Angry" and ranting on a parent Whatsapp group, or organising a petition on the dubious grounds that the more people who complain the better because it will push the Head into a corner.

Best to reassure the Head you're on their side, pay a few compliments to soften them up, then challenge gently but intelligently. And if you can help them to see it as their own idea, even better. It's much more likely to work (speaking as a fellow governor).

Must be naturally warm 😂I'm tempted to put my heating on 😬

@ThisHangryPinkBalonz I'm the annoying person who opens all the windows on the bus.....even in midwinter.

Oooh no, we can't be friends. 😂 Though I bet you get less bugs then me

Apologies if this has been mentioned already, how are the staff dressed?
Will they overheat as well?

Can’t have young people making their own decisions on what to wear now can we…
Or on how many layers then need to keep their own body temp regulated 🙄

Jumpers aren't tools.

I'm happy to say that I went through education in an averagely strict school that trusted us to know whether we needed a jumper or not. Strangely, we all managed to get pretty good qualifications and to go into satisfying careers afterwards with no signs of major character damage as a result of this appalling laxness.

Why is it "very sensible" that pupils can't decide for themselves whether they need blazers on or not? Indeed, why make them wear blazers at all if the weather's hot? No-one else out in the real world is doing anything so bloody stupid.

Why does it matter more if pupils moan that they are cold than if they moan because they are too hot? Presumably the answer is to tell them to keep jumpers in their bags or lockers?

The thing is, though, that plenty of schools manage this seemingly insuperable lost property issue fine without making pupils wear totally unsuitable clothing between lessons. Indeed, many manage even better with no uniform rules at all. Maybe the ones that struggle could pick up some ideas from the others?