challenging ridiculous uniform policy

[Clearinguptheclutter]

DS started y7 this week. It appears that it is compulsory for all children to wear a jumper underneath the compulsory blazer. There is an exception for this week only, and from June onwards but all other times they are expected to wear them.

They are allowed to ask to take the blazer off, but apparently not the jumper. In practice teachers we think are more flexible but that is the rule. Certainly when walking around school they are expected to wear both.

Both DH and I think this is completely batshit. As it happens DS is a rule-follower and will probably just go along with it but I just don't understand this reasoning at all. In whose interest is it for kids to be hot and sweaty when learning? Who on earth in the real world wears jumpers underneath suit jackets? From what we can tell the rationale is. a. the kids will look smarter and b. it gives the kids a "collective sense of identity". I rolled my eyes at that.

Anyway I'm also a rule-followed so will just hope it works itself out. DH otoh really wants to challenge it on the basis "why does the school think it can make a collective judgement on if our kids are too hot or not". In the real world if you are too hot, you take a layer off. You don't ask for permission. Obvs there are exemptions for certain professions for good reason. He has a call booked with the head of year to discuss.

Anyway just wondering what others think of this policy if you have them and has anyone ever succesfully challenged?

Or is my DH unreasonable for challenging and we should just shut up and put up. DH is telling DS "there is no need for you wear a jumper unless you want to and if anyone has a problem ask them to call me" which I don't think is terribly helpful. As much as I hate the rule I don't want to encourage DS to break it.

Actually the same school had a no teaching assistants in classroom rule .
Thus anyone with an EHCP ,and needing a classroom assistant,so they could stay in mainstream, couldn't then attend.
That really says everything about that school imho

There is no health and safety law about maximum temperatures, and so you cannot use that as an argument.

A few thoughts which you may wish to consider:

• climate change does mean warmer weather than say 30 years ago in the first half of the autumn term and in May in particular.
• that wearing them for so long means more likely to wear out, and less option to have them as secondhand for those on a lower income
• did the school website/prospectus make such a policy clear?
• certain special needs include sensory issues, and does the school allow teachers any discretion for this?
• what about comfort for any girls or young women who have more acute discomfort/pain during periods?

on that point we weren’t aware and no where on the school website is it clear that is is “compulsory”- just that jumper is listed under uniform

also most schools round here do have similar. Which admittedly probably makes it even harder to challenge.

When DC2 had a broken wrist in a cast that also held their thumb out at a weird angle, there was no way for the school blazer or jumper to be worn as neither would go over the cast. The expectation was that injured students would change into their PE kits regardless... until I wrote in and asked if it was really necessary given DC couldn't do their own shoelaces because of the cast, was disappointed to be missing PE (and a load of other stuff) and to struggle through getting changed really felt like adding insult to injury. It seems as though the policy had been introduced to deter the PE-avoiders rather than students in casts, on crutches etc.

Imo there's nothing wrong with your dh contacting the head to ask the question, why is wearing a jumper as well as a blazer compulsory? It's just asking for information initially, I'd be interested to hear the logic and justification if he finds out op!

Our secondary has a policy where jumpers are optional, blazers must be worn unless it's the last half term of the summer when they become optional. Girls can wear socks during that half term instead of tights as well which is helpful.

If we get any unseasonably hot weather outside of that last half term of the year, the school sends out an email to parents allowing "summer uniform" policy on those days. Teachers can also allow students to remove blazers in a lesson if it gets hot in the classroom, it's up to them to judge / at their discretion and then blazers must go back on at the end of the lesson.
All very sensible and works well. Quite a few parents complained about girls having to wear tights in 30 degree summer heatwaves a few years ago though, until then tights had to be worn all year round. The school listened though and the rule changed.

Today at least you need a jumper as heating isn't on yet, they can slip their blazers off anyway. Schools tend to be heated to a level that allows for everyone in jumpers, if some were in just shirts then they may moan they are cold!

My DD's school has the same policy. It is so stupid but I have got over that now they are putting kids in isolation for wearing g the wrong colour socks or incorrect shoes. @VelvetUndergrounds I am in North Somerset, I wonder if our kids are at the same school?!

I think it’s quite possible that they’re in the same group of schools at least! My child is in Somerset Somerset 😂

This to me falls in the category of rules for the sole purpose of rules.

There'll be those that say that 'you knew the rules when you picked the school' and blather on about uniforms BUT there is NO NEED for anyone to have to wear a blazer/jumper if it makes them uncomfortable. Teachers don't, and it certainly isn't done in offices. The rule makes no sense.

I have a child at school where they have a blazers on rule. Child has sensory issues and feels ill when overheated. I've told them to take the blazer off it they're hot but they're too worried about getting a detention over it.

Since we went back for the new term, it's been cool enough not to warrant me taking it up with the school but should we get another heatwave I shall be kicking up a stink if they're not allowed to be comfortable.

@Anotheranonymousname Yes, the default assumption is always that everyone is trying to get out of PE - which just adds insult to injury if the child concerned loves the subject and is usually quite sporty but has a genuine reason for being unable to take part!

To my knowledge no but funny you should mention as he is a governor at our other son’s (primary). I’ll be clear he’s been very supportive there and never complained as such about anything. But has def challenged and by and large his efforts have been appreciated- it’s part of the point of the job

Oh skip the Minister for Education, straight to the DM with this one. Sad faces at the ready, no don’t smile, defeats the purpose!

I completely understand why schools enforce the "you must have blazer and jumpers on when moving from lesson to lesson", especially with year 7. I think it is a purely practical strategy to avoid jumpers and blazers being left behind in classrooms and the ensuing fall out when loads of kids are wanting to go back and fetch things from previous rooms and parents are making a fuss about expensive uniform getting lost.

Year 7s have been used to being taught in a single classroom at primary schools where items of clothing are easier to reunite with their owners.

In a large comp, when year 7s are getting used to so many things and visiting multiple rooms each day, this avoids the potential huge amount of chaos of what got lost where and how and when to retrieve it without disrupting learning.

In a corridor, any child without blazer or jumper can immediately and easily be noticed and challenged by any member of staff and sent back to get the item while it is still lesson change over time.

I certainly wouldn't be making a fuss about this rule at least while a child is in the first term or so of year 7. It is actually very sensible and could potentially save you money on lost items.

@EducatingArti if a child is the type to naturally feel warm or uncomfortable in a jumper their parents probably wouldn't bother to even buy one if it didn't say "compulsory" on the list.
My daughter wore her school jumper at primary approximately 4 times in 7 years.
I didn't bother to buy the secondary one.
If you don't own it - you can't lose it.

I’m with you OP, my daughter and I run hot (and very rarely have any heating on at home) we both would have suffered and been terribly sweaty in a school that had these rules. I probably would have passed out, my daughter would have been miserable and snappy at best. Also during puberty the BO in that school must be unbearable.

Bat shit or not OP those are the rules. Why choose that school if you didn't agree with the rules?

The difference being they're fully grown adults who aren't going to leave their clothes on the field and then have their mum phoning up to demand somebody goes and looks for them 'on the back of the chair in science because that's definitely where they last had it'.

I'm having huge issues with school trousers for my DD. Black trousers - easy you'd think, right?

Nope, they have to be straight leg trousers from waist to floor apparently - can't find any anywhere, because nobody bloody wears them (because they're ugly)!

Add in the fact DD has a 22" waist but a 30" inside leg and it is IMPOSSIBLE to find anything that fits - if they're long enough they fall down, if they fit the waist they're 4 inches too short.

I've found some that sort of fit (long enough in the leg but she can still fit an arm in the waistband, but there's a little belt that came with them) but they're more form fitting than school would like. The school can literally suck my big toe if they complain, or if they can find me something straight leg with a 22" waist, 30" inside leg and under £20 a pair then go for it - because I've looked all summer and can't find anything.

Schools need to understand that some kids just don't fit average sizes and sometimes, as long as the kid looks smart, compromises need to be made. And how do bloody slim fit trousers rather than straight leg affect my kids aptitude for learning bloody pythagorus theorem anyway!

There wouldn’t be the extra clothes to leave if it wasn’t compulsory though!

My kids' school used to do this. I was glad of it in winter. If it was hot they could take it off

Over the years, we've found everything from coats, hats, blazers, ties and jumpers to shoes, socks and shirts. And dealt with kids on the verge of hypothermia because the parents haven't provided them with any warmer outer layers because they weren't compulsory.

It's not always about being awkward for the sake of it (can be, but not always), it can be because some parents won't equip their kids with adequate clothing and it stays on because some kids won't take care of the stuff their parents have bought - the numbers of expensive phones, earbuds, glasses, water bottles, pe kit, books, bags, house keys and jewellery that also end up in lost property and never claimed each year also show how seemingly essential items are treated.

Yes, but in a large comp, teachers won't know every child. If every child has to wear a jumper and blazer between lessons, any random teacher can immediately spot anyone who isn't and send them to get it straight away without umpteen conversations/debates/arguments about " but miss I didn't wear it today" (when actually they did but have forgotten) or trying to remember that Joe and Emily are the ones who run hot and never wear a jumper so they don't need to speak to them when they are seen without. Then you get the kid who left his jumper behind but can't be bothered to go and get it right away because it is break time and his mates are already playing footie so tells the teacher he never wears a jumper and then his form teacher has to deal with a note from a parent 2 days later saying please could they help little Johnny find his jumper which he says he left in room 3B on Monday but is no longer there and isn't in the school lost property etc etc. All this can take up huge amounts of teacher time when multiplied by umpteen occasions during a week!

It is just a way of making organisation and management easier which ultimately means that lessons are not interrupted and teachers can focus on, well, teaching!

@NeverDropYourMooncup so some children have to suffer being hot and uncomfortable because some different children are forgetful?

(I've just remembered the time the coach on a trip circa 1990 had to turn around after ten minutes because Mr Geography teacher had left his jumper behind.......)

Because it wasn’t clear until day one?

@EducatingArti but if jumpers weren't compulsory no teacher would need to ever utter the words "where is your jumper?".