challenging ridiculous uniform policy

[Clearinguptheclutter]

DS started y7 this week. It appears that it is compulsory for all children to wear a jumper underneath the compulsory blazer. There is an exception for this week only, and from June onwards but all other times they are expected to wear them.

They are allowed to ask to take the blazer off, but apparently not the jumper. In practice teachers we think are more flexible but that is the rule. Certainly when walking around school they are expected to wear both.

Both DH and I think this is completely batshit. As it happens DS is a rule-follower and will probably just go along with it but I just don't understand this reasoning at all. In whose interest is it for kids to be hot and sweaty when learning? Who on earth in the real world wears jumpers underneath suit jackets? From what we can tell the rationale is. a. the kids will look smarter and b. it gives the kids a "collective sense of identity". I rolled my eyes at that.

Anyway I'm also a rule-followed so will just hope it works itself out. DH otoh really wants to challenge it on the basis "why does the school think it can make a collective judgement on if our kids are too hot or not". In the real world if you are too hot, you take a layer off. You don't ask for permission. Obvs there are exemptions for certain professions for good reason. He has a call booked with the head of year to discuss.

Anyway just wondering what others think of this policy if you have them and has anyone ever succesfully challenged?

Or is my DH unreasonable for challenging and we should just shut up and put up. DH is telling DS "there is no need for you wear a jumper unless you want to and if anyone has a problem ask them to call me" which I don't think is terribly helpful. As much as I hate the rule I don't want to encourage DS to break it.

@Possiblyfamous why?
If the children have to wear clothing that's not suitable (ie it makes them too hot) they why shouldn't the teachers.
At my daughter's primary they had to wear blazers and ties all the time..They weren't allowed to remove them.
At a special assembly the Executive Head was there. The uniform was his rule. He was wearing a suit - blazer and tie. Same as the kids. Fine?
No. He announced "gosh it's warm in here" and REMOVED his blazer.
Could the children do that?
No they couldn't.
I lost respect for that man right then. He was a bit of an arse to start with but that really made it.

Isn't it obvious? Overheating is unhealthy, plus some children have sensory issues which make it extremely uncomfortable and stressful to wear heavy clothes and clothes with long sleeves.

OP, does the school have parent governors? It may well be a good idea to encourage your DH to stand for election. It's certainly worth talking to other parents to see if they would be prepared to join in challenging this stupidity.

Neither of my children wore a jumper at school although there wasn't a specific one they had to wear at secondary school. Dd occasionally wore a cardigan when it was cold but ds never wore anything over his shirt except his blazer.

Yes its batshit and I would challenge that they have to wear both.

Yet so many schools with no uniform at all manage to keep up superb standards. And, indeed, plenty of schools with strict uniform policies end up with indifferent academic results. It's almost as if there might be a correlation between wasting time on irrelevancies and failing to teach children effectively.

Drives me scatty. Our experience is certain teachers will always let the kids remove blazers (no jumpers here) as long as they are put back on at the end of class. But other teachers will just reinforce the rules, regardless of weather, but are happy to teach in their short sleeve shirts.
We had similiar during covid, windows wide open in winter, yet coats or gloves were not allowed. The teachers were wearing coats and gloves. I can't understand how teachers can behave like that quite frankly.

It's all utterly batshit and petty. It's a crap school too, lots of issues, constant punishments for uniform infringement are taking time away from dealing with more serious problems.

I think challenge it, its stupid! I thought our boys school was bad, but their jumper is optional. They just have to wear blazer and tie all day unless the head sends a special ‘summer uniform’ email, usually only if the forecast is over about 30celcius. If I was still at school I’d be just sweating all day, but the children don’t seem that bothered. They have never once worn the expensive branded jumper I bought though.

Not the same, but when I was at school the girls successfully campaigned to change the uniform so that we could wear trousers. And shorts for PE.

Always laugh at this getting trotted out on Mumsnet. Choice is either an illusion or not even there in many areas. Yes, they will let you go to open days and fill out a form with your preferences, but in reality you will get what you are given. Only one of our kids escaped the crap local school, and she only escaped because she was bullied badly and it was easier to move her than punish the bullies.

When I was teaching, I always managed my ow class, regardless of SLT guidance. I basically prioritised learning and wanted my pupils to be comfortable.

But….I taught as a second career at a ‘nice’ school and in a scarcity subject.

It is a high risk choice for teachers as they can get in trouble if lessons are inspected. I had many an argument with my boss over not following school ‘procedures’, especially enforcing uniform rules. But I basically told him I am happy to leave if he didn’t like the way I did things, and then it fizzled out for a bit (until the next observation). But, like I said, I was lucky I didn’t need the money, and ultimately I did leave as the school was too strict for me.

As to the actual OP, I think it is fine to ask politely the purpose, but to make a serious challenge at the beginning of year seven just isn’t worth the possible repercussions.

I think there's legal scope for this when pupils aren't being treated equally. But with the blazer rule, it is being inflicted on all the students.

Uniform is one of those super fraught areas in school where there is no perfect solution.

No uniform is argued for by some and certainly works in some countries, but I a, not sure it would here where children aren’t really brought up to respect adults (On average).

Super strict uniform is said to be an equaliser (no showing off) but also is hard for some pupils and there really is no need to swelter in shirts and sweaters on a boiling day or freeze rather than putting on another layer on a cold one.

I think the messy compromise of having a uniform but teachers given some discretion about enforcement actually works best. A 22 year old teacher might find being strict improves his or her behaviour management but an experienced teacher who knows his pupils well can be far more relaxed.

No it wasn’t obvious hence me asking

Jumpers are optional in our secondary but blazers are mandatory unless given permission to remove them. Madness.

Dress them like mini-adults from the 50s but treat them like children. Ridiculous. They should be able to self-regulate their own body temperature and how they cope in various seasons/temperatures.

I really think it shouldn't be allowed.

My DC high school was the same. No issues. The school were sensible when it was hot and the school was generally on the colder side anyway.

My biggest objection was the cost of the crap quality blazer and jumper they all had to wear

It is ridiculous. Work doesn't tell me when I have to wear a jumper. Worst is when they enforce the branded polyester stuff. It's miserable. I remember the enforced blazers year round, enormously unpleasant. I would gently challenge it.

What's wrong with complaining they have all these stupid rules that have no effect on how you learn all they do is piss young kids off then they hate school.
Does wearing a blazer and jumper give you better grades, I don't think so ffs

I'm with your DH.

I suffered with hyperhydrosis (excessive sweating, especially on my hands) as a teenager and being too hot would have quite literally made me drip sweat all over my books and desk, I'd have also been unable to hold a pen.

No one could've told me to wear a jumper.

At 11, kids are able to decide for themselves whether they require a sodding jumper.

It's an absolutely awful rule isn't it
It would piss me off so much
I have no idea what use it serves

I’m with him. As long as all garments being worn are part of the prescribed uniform, I don’t understand why a child can’t choose to just wear their shirt and not jumper. It’s also stupid to expect a jumper and a blazer (never mind the added costs!)
I doubt he’ll achieve anything but I like that your husband is challenging it.

@Fluufer ,

‘Work doesn't tell me when I have to wear a jumper.’

Although I disagree with the rule, school isn’t work. They are very different environments and need very different tools.

It's peculiar that at private schools, rules around uniform have been really rather relaxed in my experience.

Had the same at my son's school 12 years ago
I remember one year it was a boiling hot summer and the very last week of term they allowed jumpers off ,but blazers still on .
The teachers all had bare arms with short sleeves and cool cotton dresses and tops .
I remember complaining a fair bit
They still have the same policy now

Different tools regarding body temperature? Please explain what you mean.

under a jacket I hope.