11+ is going to ruin me

[AlwaysReadyNeverSteady]

Hi, sorry if this is garbled, I've had a very emotionally fraught morning.

DS is due to sit 11+ this September. He has had a 1:1 tutor for around 18 months. She comes very well recommended and is known for being upfront with parents if she thinks their child might not be quite right for the process/test. She assures me he is able enough.

He's been doing well across all areas, although slightly less so on the maths. He has a LOT of homework which I try to spread out across the week, so we're only doing a couple of (set pages) of books a night and the corrections for practise tests he'd done to previous week with tutor.

Its not always been easy to get him to focus after school, which I do understand as he works hard at school too, but we get through it. Lately he has been so emotional about it and I've apparently just got to the bottom of why... Sat with him this morning, going through corrections of test he'd sat last week. Just burst into tears, beside himself, wouldn't tell me why... Gave him some space and afterwards he told me it's because he doesn't like the way I explain things to him and that I'm "too positive."

For context, I've been a primary school teacher for 14 years. I know how to teach children and what works for different children. My kids at school always achieve well, above national expectations and I've never had any complaints about my teaching style. I never get frustrated with him, am supportive and encouraging and always try to approach the work with a positive attitude, explaining misconceptions patiently.
I'm a single parent and work full time teaching, so to be completely honest it's a massive slog for me to keep motivated and positive for him doing all this by myself. His father is utterly useless and does NONE of the work with him.

I just don't know what to do. This whole process is killing me, I am utterly exhausted. Hearing what he said has just knocked me for six. All this money and time I've invested and endless motivation when I've been on my knees after hard days at work. And I've upset him.

I'm sad and confused and I don't know what to do. I have asked him multiple times if it's because he doesn't want to carry on and he always says he doesn't want to give up.

What do I do?

@AlwaysReadyNeverSteady I have read all of your posts, but not all of the replies to this thread. I'm a parent of a child at a Birmingham grammar - she took the test two years ago when it was CEM rather than GL, but it is not significantly different, and it is no harder to get a grammar school place now than it was then.

I just wanted to say that, although you are of course correct that there are some specific things that need to be covered for the Birmingham 11 plus test, there is not that much. The maths: a bit about ratio/proportion, perhaps a bit more algebra, and we also covered long division just in case it helped, but they don't have to be Y7-9 level in maths! It's just a myth - peddled by tutors. The codes etc: the GL test contains very specific things that can be taught easily with workbooks. The English/VR: if your child is an advanced reader with a wide vocabulary and very good inference skills, it's straightforward.

For the Birmingham test, a 1:1 tutor for 18 months, plus quite a tight regime of 'homework', is a lot more than should be necessary with a bright (not genius) child. I do think you may have been swept up by the playground gossip locally.

I have a number of friends that live more affluent areas than we do (such as Sutton Coldfield, Harborne) where it is the norm to hire a tutor. We live in a less affluent area and I simply went onto the 11 plus forum to understand a bit more of what would be required, and then bought workbooks. The preparation was straightforward: my daughter did 20-30 minutes of workbooks 3-4 mornings before school from the start of Y5, a few practice papers at home and two in-person mocks with a reputable local provider in the summer of Y5 (this was invaluable for exam experience). She got high scores in both papers (Birmingham and Walsall had separate tests in those days).

Some of those friends who spent a lot of money with tutors had to cope with stressed children that had been taught far more than they needed, and some were not successful, despite being bright children from much better primary schools than my daughter's.

I am not a teacher: just a parent. Preparing for the 11 plus in this area is not rocket science: online familiarisation materials and CGP workbooks and 10-minute tests will give you all the practice material you require, and as a teacher, you will no doubt find it very easy to support your child.

I would recommend ditching the tutor (however good and lovely she is!) buying some CGP 10-minute tests and signing him up for a couple of in-person mock tests with one of the bigger local providers. After the huge amount of work your DS has already done with the tutor, that will be more than enough, if he is suitable for grammar.

Best of luck!

The bursary is certainly worth looking into. However I would also look carefully at what the 11+ exams for them involve before seriously raising with him as a possibility. Private 11+ will often include comprehension, creative writing, maths and maybe verbal and/or non verbal. Depending on the school the maths and comprehension may be multiple choice or longer written answers.

So two things here. First, at a minimum he would likely need to be able to do creative writing and potentially longer comp/maths answers. Clearly a big overlap between multiple choice and written in terms of content but is an interesting extra thing to practice. So are you/the tutor willing/able to expand his prep into these areas perhaps post grammar? Second, it drags it out until perhaps Christmas or January so you’d be at this for longer.

I’d say that even with a single income of a teacher, you are very unlikely to get a bursary in excess of 50%. That means you’re still looking at finding half of the fees.

If you start looking at independent schools, just be wary of getting too invested in the process and then disappointed if an offer is too small so it remains out if reach. It’s very common unless you are on an extremely low income. And of course the biggest bursaries are given to the exceptional children but still means tested. To get one where you’re paying no or barely any fees you need to have a very low income and to be extremely clever.

"The preparation was straightforward: my daughter did 20-30 minutes of workbooks 3-4 mornings before school from the start of Y5, a few practice papers at home and two in-person mocks with a reputable local provider in the summer of Y5 (this was invaluable for exam experience). "

@LetItGoToRuin that is 10 months to 1 year consistent effort.

Even in London with limited asset? Oh I didn't realise the mean tested is so hard, from those private school website it seems to be quite generous.

@PreplexJ thank you for the info regarding test variations/difficulty levels. Im not in a grammar area, and don't have super selective schools around us, just the bog standard catchment and then if you're lucky enough out of catchment system. I do appreciate super selective, and those with 2 rounds will be a lot more work.

I do feel, I owe everyone an apology including OP- it appears my late night post was not great and the wording may have caused some upset

Thanks again all x

@SlowAndSteadyWinsTheRace please don't worry, you didn't upset me. People's opinions on what is too much work will always vary hugely, I know this amongst my friends with children preparing too. And that's ok ☺️

It was the insinuations that my child was a "poor boy", I wasn't letting him be a child, or depriving him of his childhood that really, really stung. It's a horrible thing to hear and not true, so I defended myself just as I would in real life. Also being told I was an awful teacher wasn't pleasant, I'm human, it upset me.

To keep having to explain multiple times that I can't move also really, really frustrated me. When you're living with real financial worries everyday it's hard to have to keep your cool with posters just flippantly telling me to move area, it makes me have to address and think about what a worrying situation I'm in more than I already do worry. The wonderful suggestion that I had poorly planned my life and I was to blame for this situation just about tipped me over the edge. Nasty and unnecessary.

There really were very many posts directed towards me yesterday that were not ok. And I defend my right to be able to respond to them. I'd respond in exactly the same way again to unkind and thoughtless posts.

That said, I hope I have expressed my gratitude to those that were helpful and constructive with their criticism, that is all welcome and much, much appreciated.

So, don't worry @SlowAndSteadyWinsTheRace my 'anger' or to give it it's proper name -frustration was directed towards people who were being unnecessarily unkind and thoughtless when it was clear I was having a really shit day.

@AlwaysReadyNeverSteady I skimmed the posts before diving in yesterday ( not good 😬).
However, I did read your posts, and from what you stated, it honestly didn't sound like 'extensive' tutoring.
The reality is, everyone who has a child in grammar or aiming for grammar will either do some work with child or have a tutor. It doesn't matter whether it's for 6 months, 12 months or 24.
I appreciate some people (and I'd like to clarify, I certainly will not deny going though past papers with DS- because I had no idea what NVR and VR was)) will state no work is how the 11+ prep should be. Technically speaking, yes, in the print received it will always say no prep required-
Reality, your child is up against children that have most certainly been tutored.

Going back to your original post, do you think your DS is a perfectionist? I only ask, because he reacted similarly to how my DS reacts to positive feedback (older now so it's more humph or hmmm)- IMO it isn't burnout; it is just the way they react because they have a set goal/target and anything below isn't good enough. Any positive feedback when DS is revising for exams is never met with a cheer, just a sullen hmm or 'I don't know'.

I do agree, being told your child is being pressurised and not allowed to be a child was very unkind, considering you'd stated how he is happily partaking in his activities and hobbies; how this is his choice and knows he can stop when he wants if he wants. Yes, there are children who will be made to focus solely on 11+, but of course that's not what you're doing, so accusing you of that was and is out of order.

We too purchased a property further away from catchment of good non selective schools. Not because we wanted the challenge of trying to get in 😂 but because that is what we could afford. So I also empathise on that front.

Birmingham grammars are tough, I'm originally from Worcester, and obviously no one would even bother applying from that distance 😂 I was slightly envious of some kids I met at university who went to either the king Edward schools or the likes of sutton coldfiield/handsworth.

I've also seen your DS has been doing really well on NVR and VR, and that's brilliant. I think they're more challenging because the time allocated never seems to be enough.

And please don't take note of people questioning the type of teacher you are- not sure how people can draw conclusions from a few posts.

Your tutor may have mock tests in line, I think they give a clearer picture and hopefully will be a nice positive boost for your DS.
Wishing you both the best ☺️

DD went private school for secondary , from a state primary. The entrance exam was January I'm Yr 6 so obviously they hadn't covered the full curriculum. We got a tutor for 6 months beforehand to teach the full Yr 6 syllabus.
Honestly if she had needed more than 6 months tutoring in order to pass the entrance exam than I wouldn't have put her in for it. So many excessively tutored kids really struggle at secondary (either 11+ or private) because take the tutor away and it ie clear that they aren't naturally at the required standard when left to their own devices.
Let him be a child! If he isn't grammar material then that's nothing to be ashamed of and he will probably be a lot happier at a state non-selective secondary school. It is his life not yours and you have to look at the child in front of you rather than make your child fit a particular mould that you think it should fit into.

"Let him be a child! If he isn't grammar material"

Here comes another one

BTW what is grammar material?

Grammar material (I am one of them being am ex-grammar pupil) is motivated and independent learner who would be working towards the top of their year group in Yr 5+ 6. I would expect them to need some element of revision but it is now getting ridiculous with kids spending 2 years being tutored just to pass the test!
We never had tutors to pass 11+ years ago and so only the top % of kids who sat it passed and went on to grammar. That was the whole point of the test in the first place but now the attitude seems to be that every child should sit it even if they need 2 years of private tutoring! It is complete madness. The stress being put on these children by parents is crazy and creates a vicious circle because parents see other children being tutored so they feel pressured to get a tutor for their children.

"creates a vicious circle because parents see other children being tutored so they feel pressured to get a tutor for their children."

So if majority of the students get to a grammar nowadays are top say 30% of the year 5/6 group (and who self select to go to grammar in the first place) and most of them had some form of tutor (say paid or parent taught doesn't matter) at the length of 6/12/18/24 months, pace and intensity varies depends on competition of entry level of grammar schools. Do you think the definition of your grammar material should be change?

Does it make a kid tutor for 6 months a more grammar material than a kid for 18 months? I don't think so.

Maybe my definition should change yes but also maybe we should be looking at whether the children would pass the tests on their own accord? If every parent stopped tutoring (not going to happen I know) then that wouldn't stop the brightest kids getting into the grammar schools because they would then just reduce the boundary at which they accept children.
My point was that tutoring just artificially inflates the entrance requirements and for some kids puts unnecessary pressure on them purely for their parents' ambitions.

"maybe we should be looking at whether the children would pass the tests on their own accord? "

In what way you can not reduce the chance of a "bright" kid not tutor vs a less "bright" kid but with more time and effort in tutor? We are talking about these are all top 30% of the y5/6 students here it is not just a boundary issue.

It is a supply and demand problem.

Agree very much with you @twistyizzy

This is actual bingo 😂

If posters can't be bothered to read the full thread and actually listen to what I (and many other posters who understand the system) have said, then I can't be bothered to respond to your points.

It's really very lazy and borderline arrogant to comment on a post without reading the full background.

Or maybe some of us read the first page, had to do something, posted a reply and by that time many pages had then popped up 🤷‍♀️

But the thread is 3 days old with 14 pages...so much will have been said in the meantime, with a load more context.

Anyway, its fine! I just don't want to keep repeating myself that's all x

It came up in my active thread so I didn't check the date 🤷‍♀️.

Hi OP, you're doing the best you can! I'm in the same boat - my DC will be sitting the 11 plus in September, but I'm not a single parent. I can't even imagine how you're doing it all!

Our tutor suggests 1 hour on weekdays and 2-3 hours on weekends and holidays! This is impossible for us to achieve as both me and DH have very stressful jobs and DC goes to after school clubs and won't be home till 6 pm. So doing anything after school was going to be impossible for us. Initially, we tried to fit everything during the weekends, which he obviously didn't like. We eventually ended up taking a 2 week break from all 11 plus and agreed that at the end of the 2 weeks, DC will decide whether or not they want to continue. Surprisingly, they wanted to go back to 11 plus. So we changed our schedule and now DC comes home 2 days after school, instead of going to childcare, and catches up on 11 plus on those days. We still do some over the weekend, but now we're no longer worried about playing catch-up over weekend. This has made a massive difference.

Maybe try and change your schedule and see it if makes a difference.

Have you checked what is the pass mark you need to get in? Also, since it's the GL test, it's all about practice. Since GL tests are based on a question bank, doing enough practice papers is key.

I would also recommend doing some online mock tests as these give you a good indication of where your DC stands in a bigger group. The grammar test score not only depends on how well you do, but how much better or worse others are. I can recommend MockMasters for online tests.

All the best and I really hope the situation improves.

It’s a hell of a process OP. I found DC was not keen on going through answers with me - much preferred going through them with their tutor. I’m so glad it’s over!

Your DS sounds like his nailing NVR and VR so talking to the tutor to focus less on these and more on maths sounds a plan.

Hang in there!

Wow what a thread 😆

OP I’m only commenting on the “too positive” thing.

Is it possible he just needs to be able to vent his worries, say he’s scared about the 11+ and sick of the workload, get cross about having made mistakes in test papers, etc, without you being upbeat in response?

Maybe he feels (rightly or wrongly) that he can’t express negative feelings to you without you being perky and encouraging back? (Or asking if he wants to stop). He possibly just wants someone who will say “I know, it’s all a bit scary and hard work isn’t it, sorry love” rather than “you’re doing great, you will be fine!”

I may be barking up a gumtree…

The thing is though although some kids do get in to grammar who perhaps shouldn’t have via tutoring for years, the very bright kids are also being tutored. So the overall mark is just going to be higher / the questions more difficult.
when you are in this environment and know your child is in the top 10-20% of their class and everyone else is tutoring- it’s an impossible situation. You either do the same or risk badly letting your child down as you haven’t given them the same chance as everyone else! The child no matter how bright, doesn’t have the means to prepare themselves alone for this test and have the same Benifits as the other kids.
it’s an incredibly unfair system

Which is why the King Edward Birmingham grammars changed their admissions procedures a few years ago to howls of protest from certain families, introducing geographical catchments and increasing the pupil premium intake with quotas. Bright Birmingham children were losing out on places at their local grammar to children from miles away who had been hothoused for the 11+ from an early age. I know that in at least one Solihull prep school 11+ preparation is timetabled into the week from the beginning of Year Four, and most children will have additional private tuition on top of that.

Agree, sadly to sacrifice those underprivileged kids who are naturally bright as "grammar material" but without the support of resource or time. The system is just way too far away from its original intention.