Question for teachers - why do schools enforce uniform policies so strictly?

[justanotherdaduser]

Partly inspired by the thread below, but partly also triggered by y7 DD's experience in senior school, I was wondering why senior schools go to such lengths to stamp out minor uniform transgressions?

I don't think for a second that schools are stupid or are just tyrannical for the sake of it, so there must be some thinking behind this? Maybe slovenly uniform affects outcomes? Does it? Schools like Michaela talk a lot about smart appearance. Is that an end in itself or is there an impact on learning too?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/4751506-school-skirts-why-is-it-such-an-issue

DD's old headmaster said to the effect of 'if the kids can rebel a bit about school uniform, it keeps them happy so they don't need to rebel on other school rules'. Her school did not go OTT on enforcing uniform rules.

because nothing exposes the disadvantaged kids more than the swinging dicks coming in in the latest Airforce trainers, fade haircuts and Canada Goose jackets. If there is a level playing field on clothing then everyone is (theoretically) equal.

@UWhatNow that argument is always trotted out but my kids go to a no uniform school and as far as i can see that's not a problem. Plus kids can dress for the weather which i think is so sensible rather than wearing the same outfit in June as January

I'll go by my son's primary school. They are very strict and have a very set uniform.

Looking at the children you really can't tell who are the haves and have nots. The uniform is such good quality that you can't even tell who's uniform is brand new and who's has been handed down. That has to be a plus.

I also think there is a slight life lesson that in some jobs you'll be required to wear a uniform / PPE / set clothes and it gets the rebellion out of the way before it could cost you a job.

From my son's school I also think there are some cultural elements at play. For some cultures, school uniform should be very smart and worn correctly.

Apparently research says if you sweat the small stuff the bigger issues fall into place and make the school a better place.

No sodding clue.

Uniform does not hide disadvantage. Canada goose jackets will still be won on the way to and from school and advantage will be apparent in everything from ill fitting second hand Uniform to poorly fitting shoes because air force 1 might last several kids several years whereas a cheap pair of school shoes will only last a term because they aren't loved as much (and will ultimately cost more in the long run).

Most kids will show up in primark if they had their own choice.

No idea but from the experience ds had, they should concentrate more on actually teaching the students and not on what colour socks they wear.

God only knows. It's weird and pointless.

Teachers enforce it because they have to.

Give the kids small rebellions (uniform) prevents largers ones.

All kids are equalised....in theory

Reinforces that when there's rules in a place, that they apply for everyone.

Plus they weren't allowed to remove blazers when it was 25°, changed the school uniform to a horrendously over priced poor quality blazer and posh trousers thing in a bespoke blue so you couldn't buy off the peg trousers, stopped the monogrammed cheap polo shirt summer uniform for the not allowed to take them off blazer. The blazers faded and the only supplier(school made a deal) blamed parents for washing with softener. Made them take off coats in class when it was freezing outside and all the windows and doors were open because of covid... honestly the

Stories from the school...posted too soon!

Imo that's the wrong question. 'Why do schools have uniforms?' or 'Why do schools have such detailed, specific uniform rules?' would be better questions. It's not 'being too strict in enforcing the rules' that's the problem - if a rule isn't worth enforcing strictly, it shouldn'tbe a rule.

I visit a lot of schools
Walking up stairs I have regularly seen the butt cheeks of a 14 year old girl in a thong wearing a very short skirt.

Maybe that is why?

I know a girl like this at one of the schools I work at.

She wears tracksuit bottoms outside of school

Some students will push on any boundary. If the rules are lax on uniform, lateness and phones. The push back comes further down the line. You then have trouble with following instructions, attending lessons, vandalism etc. If you have a rule then you must enforce it. Kids will quickly realise and take advantage if you don't enforce your rules. If the rule is no trainers and you never bother to enforce it then kids also get the message that the rule is negotiable or optional. Does this then mean that they don't need to do homework or listen to the teachers?

I have worked in a few schools and attention to detail matters.

It's not Canada Goose jackets that are banned at many schools though - it's denim or camo, the coats that can be bought cheaply.
Similarly with shoes - nothing in canvas etc, it has to be black, polishable, expensive and uncomfortable.

Absolutely this.

Generalising a lot but :
Engaged Parents who value education are likely to look for schools who enforce a strict uniform policy.
These parents are more likely to have children who are focused in schools, and behave well.
The more children in your school who behave well, the easier it is to run.

Agree, definitely this. In a situation where you need 700+ teenagers to behave sensibly, the small things do matter. 5-6 years ago our school was awful for behaviour... High standards in everything have transformed it. If I remind a student to tuck their shirt in, 9 times out of 10 the response is " sorry miss" and it is done immediately. That doesn't mean uniform needs to be expensive. It also means that if standards are high and enforced by all staff you can afford to relax them a bit when needed and no-one will go crazy!

No idea . My D’s was previously in uniform school. You knew who didn’t have money…bobbbly /faded sweatshirts, clothes didn’t fit well.

now in none uniform school. I think far less issues. Teacher said at open evening that they prefer it can get on with teaching rather than dealing with minor uniform issues

If you have a rule you have to enforce it really.
My son goes to a school without a uniform so they dont have to enforce that rule. But they do enforce other rules.
I dont think uniforms raise standards. Ithink that its just a visual symbol of a place where rules are enforced.

Smart uniform is marketing for schools. Potential parents love it, because they think it's a sign that it's a good school (obviously not true). Of course once the kids are a year or so in,the parents soon tire of the expensive uniform and the fact that their dc lose bits of it and get behaviour points for failing to stick to it, and the once-keen parents then criticise it for being too strict!

If you had no uniform pupils would still push it - stilettos, open toe sanders, massive of bangles, short skirts, thongs on view.

most places of work have office wear and rules and school is great for that. Honestly you don’t like the quality of the blazer complain on mass to the governors

School uniforms aren't cheap.

The alternatives you decide probably cost the same with all the logo stuff they insist on now.

But although I bet the thing about levelling the paying field I'd buy into it more if a) uniform was cheap, cheerful and practice - bottoms, polo and jumper and b) it's not the insistence of uniform that's the issue but their insistence of wearing certain lengths, refusing trousers to female sex pupils and the impracticality of what they insist on.