Question for teachers - why do schools enforce uniform policies so strictly?

[justanotherdaduser]

Partly inspired by the thread below, but partly also triggered by y7 DD's experience in senior school, I was wondering why senior schools go to such lengths to stamp out minor uniform transgressions?

I don't think for a second that schools are stupid or are just tyrannical for the sake of it, so there must be some thinking behind this? Maybe slovenly uniform affects outcomes? Does it? Schools like Michaela talk a lot about smart appearance. Is that an end in itself or is there an impact on learning too?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/4751506-school-skirts-why-is-it-such-an-issue

Can I just say, it's not the teachers who are driving this, we are just doing what the powers-that-be insist we do, and get blamed as usual when it's not our bloody fault!!!

In my school, focusing on uniform is utterly ridiculous when behaviour issues are spiralling out of control... but hey, as long as the students look fairly smart whilst they are telling each other and us to fuck off and slamming things into walls etc, it's all ok, right??

I think its just engrained in people, it goes on and on from one generation to another. Like many other very unuseful patterns of behaviour.

Totally wrong. DT’s school was non uniform. They wore jeans, T-shirt and hoodies. Appropriate for the weather and sitting comfortably during the day. No time wasted on enforcing ridiculous uniform policies. High achievers without behaviour issues over stupid rules.

Absolutely
I wish I didn't have to but when the orders come from above, we have no choice.

Am I the only one who’s never heard of Canada Goose jackets until this thread?

@parker231 As I said generalising a lot, however the list of secondary schools in the UK without uniform is very small - and in most cases not representative of the issues faced by most other schools.

I can't believe some parents actually think individual teachers pull kids up about sock colour, type of shoes, logos on sweatshirts etc because they actually care about uniform rules! We do it because we are made to. It's literally part of our job to uphold school policies.

haha :) same here! I had to look them up. They cost north of £500 😱

I find it all to be rubbish tbh. At my DS school the new head (well newish he has been there 2 years) has been clamping down on uniform etc and to be honest all I see is the behaviour getting worse and worse.

Some kids were mucking around in the toilets so now toilets are all locked during lessons times.

Kids are no longer allowed to congregate in groups.

No unnecessary touching is allowed (that appears to include hugs).

This is a pretty nice school in a nice area. I'm fed up of all the kids being treated like criminals due to the behaviour of a small minority. Luckily DD left 2 years ago and is off to uni in Sept and DS leaves after GCSE's this summer (has a great IT apprenticeship set up). I'm so done with the education system in this country. Secondary school has been crap for both my kids. Will be happy to see the back of it. Shame for the few decent teachers left but I'm sure they'll get fed up and leave soon.

Hated school uniform as a kid snd doubly hated it for my own 4

Whet a waste of teachers time and everyone's energy. Just let them wear their own clothes snc hair styles. I loved the teenage years had one 'emo one goth one rocker snd one fairly normal. All good fun.

Makes me laugh the girls wear skirts so short for school but on non uniform day all wear jeans or leggings much more sensible

School rules should be dress how you want but behave how we expect snd enforce what's really important

This also isn't true - people make up what a none uniform school is like due to lack of experience. My Ds,'s school.still has a dress code- no slogan T shirts , no undeware showing etc-

Tbh it has got praise both Ofsted reports for how it deals with dress code-
.i do also know parents choose the next closesr school that is blazers etc because they think that makes them better,

What people also never consider is my ds has spd- He can wear t- shirt and joggers - the none uniform can be inclusive in many people don't consider

I don't get the argument about making it more equal and level. The UK is such an unequal society - uniforms clearly don't and haven't helped.
On a more personal level, I can assure you my 6 year old can tell you who the rich and who the poor kids are.

I also don't get the point about discipline. Having grown up abroad, there were no real issues with discipline and there was no uniform.

As for the it-prepares-you-for-the-world-of-work-and-uniform-wearing, again a huge section of the world manages just fine and doesn't have issues with adults turning up at work with their ties dangling loose.

I absolutely dislike the message uniforms give on so many levels, the pretending to erase inequality and instead masking it, the telling kids what matters is how you look, the forbidding of creativity and personal expression. Growing up abroad, you didn't want to be caught dead wearing the same things as others. Here everyone strives to be the same, cue all the parents dressed the same way, with the same sort of cars, haircuts etc . It's such a shame.

The only people I know now that wear ties and blazers are school kids, teachers and the local men's suit shop assistant. It's v old fashioned and a bit weird now.

Teachers enforce the school rules because they have to. It is part of our remit to ensure that students are following the rules and apply sanctions where necessary.

Maybe try asking the decision makers why the rules are in place in the first instance.

I'm so glad my high school has school uniform.

What I hated about sixth form was choosing what to wear each day. I had no idea about fashion. Had a shit sense of style. Had cheap clothes. Stressed over how often I'd worn each item of clothing. I felt like I totally stood out from the cool, trendy girls who always looked great.

I'd have absolutely loved a uniform into the 6th form.

I used to work as an LSA in a secondary school and the head teacher sais the same as others on here; that the theory goes that if they have stupid rules to rebel against, they are less likely to break the important rules. Sounds ludicrous, but I have to say that the behaviour in that school was impressive. It was a state, non-selective school and behaviour was so good compared to other schools. Obviously uniforms weren't the key thing, but maybe there's something in it 🤷🏼‍♀️

I was a student teacher at a very difficult school in the early 2000s. While I was there they made tge decision to change the uniform to blazers and enforce it with strict rules. The change in behaviour was extraordinary, and following the behaviour came much better exam results.
Obviously only one example, but it was amazing.

I would be more concerned about a school which needed a strict uniform in order to improve behaviour. Why have they let it deteriorate?
Most of Europe doesn’t have school uniforms and spend time teaching rather than enforcing uniform laws

I don’t think it’s anything to do with the have and have nots, there’s a dress code as part of the rules and if the school lets it become a grey area rather than it being black and white then what other rules can we be fuzzy about? As parents we agree on behalf of our children that they will abide by the rules set out but then try to negotiate because we don’t agree or ‘it’s only uniform’ and it doesn’t affect their learning. In employment some businesses have a dress code policy sometimes for safety and sometimes to portray a corporate image. Now it would make no difference to my ability to do my job if I wore a pair of jeans and a hoodie but I can’t so I don’t, in life there are rules and if we get caught breaking them there are consequences so if you don’t like the school’s stance on uniforms vote with your feet but stop moaning about something that you agreed that your child would adhere to in the first place. To quote my father ‘you’re going to school not a fashion show’.

@ILiveAt64ZooLane - DT’s went to a non uniform school but had no difficulties in transitioning to workwear when they got their first graduate jobs.

Neither would the vast majority of people. I’m not saying that in order to transition to corporate wear we need uniform in schools. You could be in any profession with a dress code and you don’t have a choice to change it. My post was answering the OP question. Maybe they should find a non uniform school for their child if they think the school policy is too restrictive.

I have worked in a no uniform primary school. Every child can tell. They talk about it.

Schools also have to deal with inappropriate clothing - from shoes that mean children cannot run and play, to excessively expensive tops that end up smattered with paint or glue or lunch. Teachers have to explain, for example, that the slogan on the t-shirt is inappropriate. Then deal with parents arguing about it.

Uniform and strict rules, please.

People in countries like France and the US cope with work dress codes without trussing up their kids in old fashioned uncomfortable outfits during their school years. This is a non point.

I agree with what others have said, if kids are rebelling about uniform then they aren’t rebelling about other things that actually matter.

I’d have hated not having a uniform at secondary school. Navigating social situations was stressful enough as a teenager without having to worry about wearing the right clothes every day too. As a parent I preferred the convenience of a uniform and I can’t understand why so many people dislike it so much. They can be expensive but so can regular clothes, and children need more regular clothes if they’re wearing them every day.

@MelchiorsMistress - at DT’s school the non uniform was a non issue. They wore the same clothes as they did at weekends and school holidays. Jeans, T-shirt and a hoodie - usually non branded. Ideal for getting the tube each day, not expensive like school uniforms and also easy to wash. I never saw anyone wearing the ridiculous short skirts, stupid shoes or crop tops.