Question for teachers - why do schools enforce uniform policies so strictly?

[justanotherdaduser]

Partly inspired by the thread below, but partly also triggered by y7 DD's experience in senior school, I was wondering why senior schools go to such lengths to stamp out minor uniform transgressions?

I don't think for a second that schools are stupid or are just tyrannical for the sake of it, so there must be some thinking behind this? Maybe slovenly uniform affects outcomes? Does it? Schools like Michaela talk a lot about smart appearance. Is that an end in itself or is there an impact on learning too?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/4751506-school-skirts-why-is-it-such-an-issue

I agree. I have done both uniform and non-uniform schools with my dc and I came to love uniform as a parent. Cheaper as we needed fewer clothes overall, dead easy to wash and dry, no arguments or angst about what they are wearing on a given day.

As a teacher, I had to police clothing in both types of schools, because wherever you are, parents and students will push the boundaries. Much easier in a school with clear uniform guidance. Why can't you wear those ballet flats? Because it says so right here in the uniform code.

I do think that some uniform is ridiculous - I hate seeing primary children in blazers and ties, and I hate seeing anyone in a blazer at 25C in July. But schools that make sensible uniform choices make everyone's life easier.

Why isn’t the question, why aren’t the children wearing the correct uniform to start with rather than why are the teachers enforcing so rigidly? Why does it bother them that much? Why do they feel the need to rebel about it? Personally, I never thought anything of it. I just wore what I was supposed to, went to school and changed as soon as I got home. My kids are the same. My son gets an automatic detention if his shirt is not tucked in or his top button undone or blazer off- sounds draconian but you don’t see a single kid breaking the rules.

I think its just discipline. It's important for kids to have rules somewhere.

I don't believe there's any real impact on learning.

DD is year 7 at a girls grammar - excellent behaviour and excellent results throughout the school. Funnily enough they're not tyrannical about uniform whatsoever. The girls are already pushing the boundaries - jewellery they shouldn't be wearing, painted nails, too short skirts- nobody gets pulled up on it which I was surprised about. I think the school just knows it doesn't matter. They'll all be getting 9s in their GCSEs regardless

I grew up in a country where school uniform was not a thing. Whilst there was no outright bullying on the brands worn people.knew who had the good stuff and who didn't. As a child that never had the good stuff it had a huge impact.

I have had 4 children go through the British school system all 4 in schools that upheld uniform codes none of them have had clothing issues.

I worked as a school counsellor in a secondary school . I have never forgotten the pure fear and anxiety a no uniform day did for one of my students. He came from a not we of family and even jeans and a t shirt for him was a huge case of anxiety. Same day I saw a student who came from a well off family who expressed they should have more own clothes days. If school needed more money. Even exploring with him why this might not work for all he could not get it. As he had the items needed. Meanwhile the other student was sick with fear.

This is one of those situations where privilege gets an impact even if we state it doesn't.

I didnt like school uniforms when my oldest trotted off to school. When my youngest left secondary school I had done a complete U turn.

Doesn't mean I think the school in the news handled it wonderfully but nor do I think a uniform is a bad idea. It does level out the playing field somewhat.

I will never forget my anxious client. Really brought privilege home to me in a way I have never experience before or since.

That's utter bollocks though.

The disadvantaged kids will be known with a uniform. Everyone one knows Sam hasn't got the latest iPhone, has no money for shopping, no bike, no whatever

I get the genera idea about uniform being a levels but have no idea why they are so uncomfortable. I think many schools are far too strict on enforcement too.

Local school doesn't enforce uniform strictly - consequences include stolen expensive coats, parents complaining about damage to expensive branded shoes and my personal bugbear is seeing girls knickers as they are walking along the street in town, not just from the wind, I mean it's deliberate I think. My friend has told one particular group of short skirted girls that they are showing their underwear to which they shrug and do nothing to pull their skirts down a bit.

Expensive brands and revealing clothes don't belong in schools

One of my DD's was at a secondary school without a uniform for 2 years, was a nightmare - very expensive as all the kids wore very expensive brands which I refuse to buy into as a concept (I can afford it but jeans are jeans!) she then went to a school with a strict uniform, far easier

Reading with intrigue, although the philosophy of John gatto Taylor may help with understanding some of it

It’s a bit harsh to make Sam put his disadvantage on full display all day every day though isn’t it?

This is so true.

Exactly 🙄 broken windows policy. Doesn't work with teenagers.

@itsgettingweird. Can you name and shame a school where girls are not allowed to wear trousers?

I think we're all brainwashed in the UK to think uniforms=good. It seems particularly old fashioned post pandemic when ties and jackets are being phased out in offices.

Like @Caviarandgelatine experience, DD1's grammar school is far more lenient about uniform than the comprehensives in the area. It seems to allow schools to have a semblance of control which isn't always displayed in the other behaviour. Is this uniform obsession another Ofsted - Gove result like the attendance or did it exist before?

At secondary I was the poor kid, uniform at least gave me a hope of fitting in.
Mufti days give me huge anxiety and I would (as others) regularly go off sick. I never wore a coat as the one I had was an obvious fake one from the market.

At least the uniform gave me a chance of fitting in and being the same as everyone else.

My children’s school is strict, and has a type of skirt that comes in different sizes and lengths - but can’t really be rolled up due to the style. They can wear trousers but again guidance is given on type - only 2 girls out of over 100 in her year wear them.

For my daughter uniform gives her a sense of calmness as well knowing what she has to wear etc No big eyelashes or fake tans - this means the pressure is off her to have to try and keep up with trends (the girls do try a push it at the school)

If you choose a school with a strict uniform policy and you don’t like it - there are plenty of other schools but you may find they just not quite as good (well in our area it’s definitely the case 2 over subscribed schools strict policy 4 under performing schools no policy)

Amazing how most of the world manages without school uniform. My family is US, France and Belgium are the same as the uk based school DT’s attended. No school uniform but none of the problems highlighted on this thread.

@Parker231 i totally agree. And all this nonsense about preparing them for the workplace by wearing shirts and ties. What about kids who aspire to be bakers, plumbers, tattoo artists, musicians, dog trainers etc etc etc etc...

Thank god we had uniform. When I got to 6th form and we didn't honestly it was a nightmare. Everyone else was wearing the latest brands and had so many clothes. I had literally 3 other outfits. Anxiety every single day.

Let kids all dress the same way. One less thing to worry about.

I do think they should get rid of blazers though. And honestly no need to have this stiff uniform. Uniform could be joggers and a sweatshirt for me - so long as they're all the same that's what matters.

But a girls grammar school with high levels of achievement and parental/ student engagement doesn't need to enforce any rules in anywhere near the same way as a school with a more challenging intake.

Obviously. The OP was asking if slovenly uniform made a difference to learning and outcomes and my point was that not in itself, no.

I prefer uniform, but I think the expensive blazers are pushing it too far.

it seems that some schools think that being strict on uniform will work because it’s been seen as having an effect at other schools. In isolation, it probably doesn’t make any difference. They need all the other things that were out in place that contributed to improving the school.

I get annoyed when behaviour is getting worse and all the school seem to do is crack down on uniform. There’s a lot more important things to be done first.

Yep!

The only modern day women I can think of who wear ties to work are those in military parade/dress uniform!

And even female police officers get a neckerchief thingy rather than a man’s tie.

I’m not against the concept of school uniform but I am puzzled as to how the standard secondary option has come to be more ‘Christian Bale in American Psycho’ than ‘average British adult at work in the 2020s’.

Also, black blazer, white shirt and grey bottoms makes an entire school look like apprentice undertakers.

yes, exactly. Number of posts here assumed I was questioning the point of school uniforms.

While the question was specifically about whether going over the top with uniform enforcement - like measuring girls' skirt lenghts with rulers, or 'Blazer on all the time' (DD's school) actually buys us anything extra.

If ultimately it makes little difference in attianment, then, why bother?

I've worked at both non uniform & uniform schools & have had DC in both & I absolutely prefer non uniform.
I'm low income so only bothering about 1 pair of shoes was great, both DC wore the same things to school that they would wear at weekends, it definitely saved me money.
When DD went to a uniform school the non uniform days were painful, she was so unsure about what to wear etc, despite being totally chilled out about clothes in her non uniform school.