Question for teachers - why do schools enforce uniform policies so strictly?

[justanotherdaduser]

Partly inspired by the thread below, but partly also triggered by y7 DD's experience in senior school, I was wondering why senior schools go to such lengths to stamp out minor uniform transgressions?

I don't think for a second that schools are stupid or are just tyrannical for the sake of it, so there must be some thinking behind this? Maybe slovenly uniform affects outcomes? Does it? Schools like Michaela talk a lot about smart appearance. Is that an end in itself or is there an impact on learning too?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/4751506-school-skirts-why-is-it-such-an-issue

Whether we should have uniforms or not is a different question. Quite what any uniform should involve and how prescriptive it should be, is another question.

However, given we do have them, they need enforcing. If they aren’t enforced, then very quickly significant slippage happens - it’s a disobedience. Disobedience in uniform being tolerated, results in students thinking they can be disobedient about other things; homework, time keeping etc. Keeping control of the seemingly small things, creates an environment of expectation that other rules are followed and creates a productive environment. So, if you are going to have a policy it needs enforcing.

Schools often have very rigid policies with specific skirts being required and specific lengths, because any ambiguity results in lots of time wasted in arguments and debates and uncertainty. Clarity has huge benefits.

Lots of people ask on other threads about why there is bad behaviour in schools, or why their children don’t make better progress. Atmospheres where learning can happen and there’s a positive atmosphere dont just happen….they need a lot of hard work. Particularly in schools which have had a more troubled past or still have potential troubles, clarity of rules and clear enforcement creates an environment where learning can happen and the regular minor and frequent distractions can’t get a foothold and ruin the education for all.

So, I’d say if your school has a a clear uniform policy and it’s enforced, and other rules are enforced too, be glad. The impact is likely to be helping create a better environment for learning….even if it’s difficult to see the connection to that. Support it and don’t undermine it. When parents undermine and don’t support school rules, they are invariably undermining learning, although they often don’t see that.

My DD goes to an academically selective independent school and they seem to be far more relaxed about uniform than the average comp. Of the everyday uniform, only the blazer is specially for the school, everything else can be bought where you want and with not much instruction on style. Kids wear shoes that would be banned for basically being trainers. I've come to the conclusion that they are relaxed because they don't need to use uniform to influence other behaviours, as their intake is generally well behaved. Which makes me think other schools really are using uniform to prevent other rebellious behaviour.

Because its a form of institutionalising . Nothing to do with bullying or preparing anyone for work force .
I grew up in a country with no uniforms and bullying is notable as aprontem as it’s here .
A uniform is a form of controlling and make people submit . If it was imply to minimise bullying or prevent clothes getting ruined then it would be a comfortable uniform .

Totally agree.

The school uniform requires a white polo shirt. That's it. No detail on brand, sleeve length etc. I had bought girls' t-shirts for her and for some reason the sleeves were shorter than the generic ones.

DD was one of only 3 students to turn up for a maths revision class before the Junior Cert exam (GCSE equivalent). The maths teacher spent 15 minutes of the class giving out to dd about the length of the sleeves instead of teaching the class.

Dd didn't bother going to any of her other revision classes...

This

There's a massive difference between a mufti day in a uniform school and a non uniform school.

ALL DD17 clothes for sixth form cost less than her blazer for secondary and she doesn't need a second set of clothes for weekend/holidays and only one pair (yes named) trainers that i picked up cheap. Don't get me started on the cost of lost jumpers and ties in secondary.

I could buy a complete outfit for each day of the week from the Hollister outlet for DS15 for the cost of the blazer + pe kit.

Also With the rise of SEN and sensory issues at school the fact that you can just wear tracksuit bottoms and a hoodie to school if you want is invaluable.

For many it may be the difference between being on class and out of class.

It does disadvantage some children. The ones that turn up at school in a part or no uniform but they have got themselves there because their parents can't or haven't made an effort. The ones who's parents sell their uniforms to buy drugs, etc. The ones who live in a home with a mountain of dirty washing and just cant manage another day wearing the same uniform for the 10th time as it is now filthy.

I like uniform. My children went to different secondary schools - one with a strict uniform policy and one with no uniform. The one with no uniform drove me insane with the amount of washing I had each week but I never once saw a child sent home for not being dressed correctly. The school with the uniform regularly sent children home for not wearing their blazer - they didn't seem to take into account that that child had perhaps been up for hours feeding their younger siblings because of their inept parents but had managed to get themselves and their siblings out of the house and to school on time.

The best, most inspiring teachers my kids have had, never nagged about uniform. I think they had a better sense of priorities.

There's no point in uniform unless everyone is uniform.

I worked in a primary school, in a pastoral role, with a strict uniform code. Including colour of socks. I made a joke of this, and became known as the sock lady. A very deprived area, the school kept stocks of new uniform and shoes for lapses. I phoned a single dad one day to remind him about the sock policy, which I hated doing, and tried to make light of it. His response, he worked long hours, he got the kids to school clean and fed, did their reading and homework, and then told me where to go. I stayed a whole term.

Yes, this is the argument.

I remember being in a behaviour management INSET with an external trainer and he said, "if I go into a failing school, the first thing I do is get all the kids wearing black shoes." 🤷🏻‍♀️

I'm not sure I totally buy this now but I'm not a teacher anymore and my kids go to a Steiner school where they wear whatever they like and hug trees all day!

As a secondary governor for many years, we had a Head who made a complete and utter fool of himself over this.

Retired ‘tired’ soon afterwards…

Not for nothing do they call it “Old School”.

Personally I would prefer to try the option of individuality style and encourage creatively and fashion styles and keep uniforms optional

Exactly. DS's primary had single supplier polo shirts and jackets, luckily generic bottoms (these became logo ones too after he left). The lower income kids like mine were in second hand (and in the younger years you could tell as it was a light colour) bought with two years of growing room. The middle class kids were in new uniform bought to fit the year.

That’s not a minor transgression though, that is something that dose need addressing, however forcing children to wear blazers and ties in extreme heat, not allowing them to wear winter coats, forcing parents to but expensive crap branded uniforms is absolutely ridiculous.

Utter rubbish, my DCs went to a school with no uniform for a couple of years, there was no competition whats so ever, I would have had no idea who had money and who didn’t as opposed to their current school were you can tell which kids can’t afford to replace uniforms.

I am from a non school uniform country and now work as a teacher here. In my opinion uniform is better.

My own anecdotal experience is that when my school stopped enforcing uniform policy and began to ignore the obscenely short skirts, and the boys wearing coats and hoodies in school premises. It then moved onto the no mobile phones policy not being enforced and from there behaviour continued to deteriorate. So I am an advocate for sweat the small stuff. As someone said earlier- if the message is rules will not be enforced, you should be prepared for rules to no longer be followed.

If ultimately it makes little difference in attainment, then, why bother?

Because while educational attainment is a school’s primary focus, it is not the only thing they have to be concerned with.

When you get to working ya always have a stipulation of what is and what ismt appropriate, I have to wear trousers to go to the plant, ope toes shoes are a no no due to help and safety, tuts or ass hanging out will get ya a word with HR. Don't get me wrong some schools are ridiculous but uniform at school is a good place to start and learn you can't always wear whatever ya please

It's the old give an inch take a mile thing. I actually love strict school uniform it means you never have to think about getting dressed.

Funny to hear people being snotty about second hand uniform, at my school and my DC's (private) there is a certain status to second hand, everyone avoids buying new on environmental grounds otherwise millions of school uniforms go to landfill every year.

The having to buy twice the clothing is expensive too. You still need a full week's worth of regular clothes for each season to see you through the holidays, plus uniform on top. They outgrow the regular clothes before they outwear them so if they last longer with less wear then that makes no difference. Uniform is just an additional cost I wouldn't have had otherwise.

Don't get me wrong some schools are ridiculous but uniform at school is a good place to start and learn you can't always wear whatever ya please.

Schools are behind the curve on dress. Workplaces are getting less formal clothing-wise. Besides, when kids move on to college or university they can wear whatever the hell they like, so what's that teaching them, by your logic?

Ter fooling yersel there

I think it must be mostly the very well off and the poor in second hand. DS's state primary had a mix of kids like him from low income families, and kids from middle income families. It was the poorer kids in second hand and the better off in brand new.

You could absolutely tell which kids couldn't afford to replace uniforms as DS's primary. He was one of those kids.

Ter fooling yersel there.

Yeah it's not like most countries in the world manage perfectly well without school uniform. Oh hang on...