School skirts? Why is it such an issue?

[jobadoo]

I don't have daughters and my sons are still at primary school so I don't understand why secondary school girls' skirts are such a massive issue that there are silly measuring by ruler and pupils protests and drastic school decisions to remove skirts from uniforms??

What's the solution?

I think the solution is to treat girls fairly. As in let then wear trousers if they want. Stop eroding their dignity by making boys behaviour their fault , and to not measure their clothing!

It's supposedly because the skirts get rolled up so they are far to short.
Personally I think it's an incredibly unflattering look but I think if girls want to do that then that's their choice. They are often doing it to prove they can 'break the rules' - if school staff just stopped commenting about it and essentially just ignored it a lot probably wouldn't do it.
A lot of schools however have those pleated style skirts which seem to be designed to be worn short in the first place and one growth spurt and they are too short. Have the uniform skirt as a basic A-line style and some will get rolled up but at least they start life a decent length.

I thonk girls are already allowed to wear trousers if they want too? I have seen girls in trousers at my sons primary school and at local secondary schools. So it's not their choice of clothing but the length of skirt if they choose skirt is the issue.

I have seen secondary school girls with very short skirts (about 20cm from their waist) and wish someone could tell them that they would not look good in any work settings. I do sympathise with teenagers who grow so fast sometimes their clothes can't keep up.

meant to type I think not thonk

My mother remembers skirt rolling from her school days (60s/70s)
I did it too (90s/00s)

It is mostly a bit of harmless rebellion. And tie lengths, shirt tucking, undone buttons etc.

Girls have rolled their skirts since always. The trousers are ugly and unflattering on pretty much everyone. The only girls that wear them at my daughters' school wear them
For religious reasons.

Where the kids seem to be a bit missing the point is you unroll when you get to school.

There's absolutely no need to be measuring skirts like some of these schools have been doing, that's just a power play and it turns it into an exercise in humiliation. It's blatantly bloody obvious when a skirt has been rolled up and is inappropriately short or when a skirt isn't a pleated knee length as per uniform code and is in fact an arse skimming Lycra bodycon skirt.

Make the uniform policy clear and affordable, address individuals who are flaunting it in a calm and considered manner, repeat breaches of policy gets detention.

Uniform policy shouldn't be about protecting the poor boys from lustful thoughts, it should be able making sure that every pupil at the school is wearing clothing that's appropriate for the setting and allows them to complete all activities that they need to complete as part of their schooling, including sitting cross-legged on the floor for assemblies and clambering around in Drama.

If a female CEO turned up to a board meeting in a micro mini and blouse buttons undone most people would think that it is pretty odd. It’s her choice, but still if she was considering doing that, most people would advise against it. Kids, girls, don’t understand what other people think. It’s our job to tell them how not to make a fool of themselves. Sometimes, you need to make rules and enforce them went they won’t be told. I think this is one of those cases.

The girls at the Merseyside school that was in the headlines for skirt measuring are not allowed to wear trousers. Also their policy says the skirt can't be above the knee which is a problem when:

1. Skirts are sold by waist measurement, not by length. More expensive brands have length options, but supermarket brands don't. So tall, skinny girls can sometimes struggle to get skirts which fit round the waist and also meet their school's length criteria.

1. Girls grow unpredictably. A skirt that is on the knee in September can easily be an inch above by Christmas. So there needs to be some flexibility in school enforcement of skirt length policies.

Yes, some girls also roll their skirts up, but that issue can be dealt with much more easily than the other two points.

Unfortunately my oldest is a roller. It doesn't matter how much I go out of my way to find the longest possible skirt for her waist measurement and tell her it looks inappropriate short. She'll still adjust it to a wholly inappropriate level the minute she's out of sight.

I have no idea why we insist on school uniform. Kids should be able to wear what they want.

@Fredoraly that's the irony. If there was no uniform 99% of the girls would be wearing leggings, jeans or trackies 🤣

Going against the grain here but rolled skirts look awful so maybe just have that as a rule, no rolled skirts in the uniform policy. Easy enough to check no need to be getting rulers out. Should definitely have a trouser option though.

Yeah I live in a European country where uniforms are not a thing. DS is in secondary school and I’ve never heard any mention of a dress code. The kids wear what they want to and I think almost everyone wears jeans of some description. Nobody seems to get worked up about skirt lengths.

@breeliant out of interest I just looked up the uniform for that school, they have 3 different uniform suppliers who sell similar but not identical pleated grey skirts, 1 supplier for £18, another for £6 and the last for £18. M&S do a longer length pleated skirt in the same style and shade of grey for £9.

So it isn't a case that they are restricted to 1 supplier, or 1 style there are options and they could find a skirt in the right waist size and length. For whatever reason the parents are not doing that.

I live near a sixth form college, no uniform. Quite a few crop tops, but no short skirts or shorts

I think it's really stupid. And don't get me started on ties. I mean, ties. Noone needs to wear a tie at 14.

..except the named school suppliers sell skirts by length.

And the 1-2cm above the knee isn't substantiated by photographs online of school things, where the average length of a non school supplier style skirt appears to be at mid thigh on girls who certainly don't look to be nearly six foot tall, more like five two, so the actual school skirts would be below their knees.

I am fine with the idea of a uniform, but make it practical, and make it universal across schools ( at least in that authority) so kids can ‘hand me down’ , don’t need new stuff for moving schools etc.
Ditch Blazers, ties. Skirts/ trousers to personal preference. Easy wash etc. low cost. Our local state schools wear ‘uniform’ but it’s not smart ..

Just let them wear jeans and hoodies .

School uniform is made with one body shape in mind when teen girls vary wildly in shape due to everyone teaching puberty at different times. If school trousers were made flattering and took into account that girls come in a lot of different shapes and sizes then the number of trousers wearers would increase imo.

Dd wore a skirt because it wasn't possible to buy flattering trousers. You just can't buy age 11 waist with age 16 length where as an age 11 skirt is available and looks better because the waist fits. Schools often have a no skinny style trousers which is unfair on girls who develop hips earlier too.

My friend teaches in a non uniform school where the only rule is No bellies, bums or boobs showing. It works fine and they don't have the clothing issues that those with strict uniform policies have. Also, fwiw, I think that every school should allow girls to wear trousers. My dd only wears trousers as she hates the school skirt style they have to wear.

Girls should be able to wear trousers.
The school has set standards of dress and trying to amend them is a gauntlet to the school. I guess ? Also, by making them mega short the girls know this is to try to make them look attractive. It is though very daft.
They might not be mature enough to fend off some off the unwanted interest it might bring despite how confident they may seem. And no, it shouldn't happen but sadly, it sometimes does.
So the school, whilst the girls are in their care want them to dress in a sensible way. And not attract unwanted interest.

They should be able to wear PJ’s like their mums do going down to the shops

I work at a school and the girls can wear trousers as long as they're not sprayed on. Most wear skirts and roll them up as far as possible. In theory, it shouldn't matter but I can genuinely see their pants when they sit down or pick up their bags/do drama. And in summer months, when they're sweaty and warm, their bare skin is on the seats/stools and, well, I'm not describing it in lurid detail, but nobody wants to sit in somebody else's sweat.

I think uniform does matter to a lot of our students. The anxiety on non uniform days is palpable and some of our students who struggle, find not fitting in unbearable.

To my knowledge, nobody has ever said anything about being responsible for boys' thoughts and behaviours but I do worry about how impractical and sometimes, risky their tiny rolled up skirts are. It's pretty risky in food tech and science for example.