School skirts? Why is it such an issue?

[jobadoo]

I don't have daughters and my sons are still at primary school so I don't understand why secondary school girls' skirts are such a massive issue that there are silly measuring by ruler and pupils protests and drastic school decisions to remove skirts from uniforms??

What's the solution?

I only have very young children who aren't yet in school so not at this stage. I understand replacing uniforms a couple of times a year can be expensive as kids grow fast but what do parents generally do about home clothes kids outgrow? I guess not such an issue to change them if they become very short as parents generally don't mind if very short clothes are worn at home? It would help if there was more access to second hand cheap school clothes so more parents can afford to clothe their kids especially in a cost of living crisis :(

I understand replacing uniforms a couple of times a year can be expensive as kids grow fast but what do parents generally do about home clothes kids outgrow?

The issue in cost is firstly that both school.and home clothes need to be bought so double what the child actually needs. So increasing the total cost. Poor families can only afford to buy the school uniform and so the kids have to wear uniform all the time and don't have normal clothes.

Secondly, there are so many rules about it. So if a school skirt is outgrown you have to go and buy that from a specific shop and if you wear a school skirt that is too short you can end up in isolation as a PP said has happened to her daughter after a growth spurt. If their school shoes get soaking wet walking home from school you have to put them back in the soaking wet regulation shoes the next day or they end up in isolation. If the school changes uniform (as our school just has) you have to buy a whole new set of clothes for all your children instead of being able to use hand me downs.

In comparison, when they are allowed to wear normal clothes to school if they realise they've grown out of one pair of jogggers then for most families there will be several options:

1. Putting on an alternative that is slightly bigger and still fits
2. Getting out the hand me downs from an older sibling
3. Getting out that pair of jeans that Granny bought for their birthday that was too big 6 months ago but now fits

I find it hard to believe some people can't understand the negatives of having to buy your child a second set of expensive restrictive clothing to attend education. If you need specialist clothing for work your workplace provides it (e.g. my work pays for my prescription safety specs, safety shoes and a labcoat to wear in areas where PPE is required. But otherwise I wear what I want). I bet if schools had to provide all specialist clothing to attend school they would get rid of uniforms and only provide safety clothing as appropriate. There is no evidence that wearing a school uniform improves educational outcomes. And since school uniforms for girls are so sexualised in popular culture (Delightful !) I'd say they were actively harmful for girls.

Have a uniform policy stipulating short skirts and they will all wear long ones

My daughter rolls her skirt and wears it short. She's a beautiful girl and the short skirt look is very flattering on her 🤷‍♀️ I don't see the harm in it at all.

Why didn't you buy it short to begin with then?

I feel really uncomfortable about your post. Are we in a straight position where only ‘beautiful’ (and obviously this is a subjective position) girls are permitted to wear short skirts?

doubt XelaM is a sincere poster

I've said this before but there seems to be a correlation between the stricter the school is on girls skirts the more likely they are to insist on a skort for PE that has arse cheeks hanging out.

I agree with the person above who suggested tracksuits, that's what they have in China.

For younger children I love the Italian smock type outfit. I can't remember the proper name but basically children wear a smock over their ordinary clothes.

Errr... I've been hear for years. Check my post history if you like.

Actually we bought two - one short that actually fit and one a bit longer and therefore bigger. She started off wearing the shorter one but was told off for it, so she wears the bigger one rolled up and can unroll it if being told off.

But you don't feel uncomfortable with the countless posts on this and other threads about how ugly teenage girls look in rolled up skirts? My post was in response to all those posts.

There's not a single school near me where girls can't wear trousers. Girls are entitled to wear trousers but choose not to.

The problem is, if you want to object to extremely short skirts, you have to set an objective, fixed acceptable length. As a teacher enforcing this, the one thing you want to be most of all is fair. You don’t want to pick up one child and let another get away with it.
So, the only easy, objective point that doesn’t involve rulers is “ on the knee”. But then you have the issue that no girl is ever going to buy a skirt below the knee as it would be social suicide. So everyone buys the skirts already pushing the absolute limit of “on the knee”ness, and then they grow. As a parent myself, I’m very sympathetic to not wanting to buy skirts all the time.
It’s an absolute pain in the arse having to make sure the rules are followed. What ends up happening at most schools is that you get some teachers opting out of enforcing the rules (and I can see why male teachers want to do this) so the rules are never fairly imposed. The only way you can enforce them is to do a big senior management push, and then you’re liable to end up in the papers.
I don’t think there’s any good solutions. If you remove skirts from the uniform entirely, people say trousers don’t fit everyone (though I have to say, I never see anyone wearing skirts on own clothes days). If you only pick on the girls whose shorts seem super short, you’re not being objective and open to allegations of picking on kids or sexualising then. If you Enforce the on the knee rule objectively, you’re making parents pay out in a cost of living crisis, and if you just let them wear skirts however they want, you’re possibly not fulfilling the in loco parentis rule, and exposing them to pervy males in clothes their own parents would not want them getting away with.
Personally, I’d prefer to go for a trousers uniform, or not impose length restrictions at all. I absolutely hate dealing with skirt length issues and would much rather not be stoking unnecessary conflict and getting on with teaching.

Just remove skirts as a uniform option. Stick everyone in trousers.

I don't get it.

Why?

Trousers for all would be the preferable option, but of course in 2023, we have those delightful bum scrunch style leggings so there'll always be something to push a boundary.

Some girls do wear their skirts so short that you can see their knickers. Parents can't do anything about it once they've left the house. I would hope a teacher would have a word with my daughter if she was doing that.

In schools that have unisex skirts and trousers an absolutely overwhelming majority of girls are in skirts. I do r think they should be forced to wear trousers. Anymore than boys or teachers should be forced to wear trousers or skirts. And generally skirts are much more economical. Perhaps just get rid of uniform and they’d mainly be in trackies and jeans. It’s reached a ridiculous level now anyway where it’s perceived as acceptable that an individual can’t remove jumper or blazer, they have to overheat

My daughters are younger so I haven’t faced this issue yet but you do see girls from the local high school and some skirts are bottom of bum cheek level. It’s paired with dark tights/ leggings but they are a bit see through.

It sounds sad but it does make me want to mother them a bit. I’m pretty sure I wore equally short skirts and was not great at keeping myself out of dodgy situations as a teenager. Not that the length of my skirts were responsible. They were more like an outward symbol to society that I’m prone to not listening to school / parents.

@AngryGreasedSantaCatcus

Why what?

The solution is to have a dress code rather than a uniform. Uniform trousers are not flattering on anyone because the shape doesn't fit every body shape.

When I was at school nobody wore skirts, literally nobody. Dress code options were any black skirt or any black trousers (not jeans or leggings) so we chose something that fitted well and was flattering. A couple of years later they changed the uniform to specific trousers that would fit on the waist but billowed at the hips, or fitted the hips and then you couldn't do them up. So girls swapped to skirts because they only really needed to fit at the waist, and then the length issues came in.

I work in secondary and some of the skirts are beyond short. Like bum cheek on show short. They also look like lampshades as they ping out to the side when they're rolled up.

In our school, the staff and sixth form have a strict dress code as well, so it does go with being part of the school that you have to stick to some rules about clothing. I'm not allowed to wear short skirts either and would get pulled aside if SLT saw me wearing one or a low cut top. In an ideal world, I'd wear jeans or joggers to work but I can't.

We have recently have tried to relax the uniform to make it more economical for families. We have stopped insisting on blazers, no ties and just a sweatshirt needed (a bit like primary school). Parents can also buy badges and sew them on to their own sweatshirt if they prefer.

The number of complaints I've had from parents is unreal. This is a very deprived area and some of these parents making the complaints can't get their kids to come to school for more than am hour a day, max. But they only want to bitch to me about there not being blazers anymore. Apparently we've lowered standards...🙄.

And girls can buy whatever (black tailored ie not jeans or leggings) trousers they want. There is no insistence on specific trousers. Boys can wear skirts too in our school if they want to. We don't even have boy / girl uniform anymore.

I work in a secondary on a casual basis, and some of the skirt lengths are obscene....barely skimming their bum. It amazes me how girls can possibly feel comfy with this when on their period. They walk around with their hands on their bum keeping their skirt in place. I have no issue with skirts over the knee but some of these are just ridiculous.
Anyway - I have the solution - make 'em wear culottes. Then if they roll up they give themselves a wedgie😀

ok, sure, then, you're sincere. In which case, why the F does it matter that your girl is beautiful when it comes to violating school dress codes? Is beauty a free pass? Are only "ugly girls" not allowed to wear short skirts or break the rules? Why in the world would you make an important point of whether her looks are nice, wrt to breaking school rules & showing off her knickers?

Oh wait, let me guess. She has beautiful knickers too. So that's alright then.

So it's ok to talk about how ugly teenage girls look (see posts on this and many other threads) but not the other way around? I just wanted to say that it actually looks very flattering and much nicer than a frumpy knee-length skirt. They have time to wear frumpy clothes when they get older. Let them enjoy being teenagers. And I came from a school system with no uniform (Germany) and shockingly we all managed to learn and pass exams without anyone monitoring our skirts.