School skirts? Why is it such an issue?

[jobadoo]

I don't have daughters and my sons are still at primary school so I don't understand why secondary school girls' skirts are such a massive issue that there are silly measuring by ruler and pupils protests and drastic school decisions to remove skirts from uniforms??

What's the solution?

Our local state secondary school has no uniform. And most kids just wear joggers. More comfortable! Been to another area with uniform and girls were wearing ripped tights with barely visible skirts 🤷‍♀️. Perhaps just make comfortable clothing the dress code for everyone - joggers and tshirt.

The amount of complaints from parents on here about this issue is staggering, and just goes to prove what teachers are up against when maintaining respect and discipline.

When so many parents pander to their children, it's no wonder so many young people are failing in society and the workplace.

Teachers are there to educate, but also to prepare their students for the real world. This is proof that so many parents aren't.

@HarrysStyle in the "real world" though most adults aren't forced to wear poorly fitting and uncomfortable clothes that are not fit for the purpose of the day.
School uniforms are often too hot in summer. Bad design for winter (ie can't fit a coat over the top of a blazer).
Bad design for anything active that involves moving around like drama class. Ties are dangerous for science lessons, DT etc.
Have a uniform - but a much more sensible one.

@Needmorelego I think you know really that's not what this uniform issue is about. Female Students wouldn't want to wear jogging bottoms etc for comfort, if they did they'd pick wearing trousers over skirts which barely any do.

My point is it comes down to discipline. And parents are supporting this lack of respect for authority/discipline that they'll need in the workplace.

Schools and teachers aren't helping parents either though.

I thought that the government had made it a legal requirement for school uniform to be affordable? The secondary schools near me all insist on expensive blazers/logos on everything/expensive PE kits. Its unaffordable and blazers and ties look stupid, IMO.

I have no problem with uniform and reasonable rules around it. Making kids sweat in hot classrooms in blazers isn't reasonable. Expecting parents to pay more than necessary isn't reasonable.

When I went to secondary in the late 90s/early 00s virtually all the girls wore trousers. In fact our uniform was polo shirts, sweatshirts, and we were allowed to wear black trainers as well. It was sensible and comfortable, and actually much harder to make look scruffy or not comply with.

Agree with pp's comments- I think uniform should be joggers/hoodies/t shirts and trainers. Comfy and practical, much harder to break the rules with, and the kind of thing they all seem to like wearing away from school. Can be done much cheaper for parents as well.

@HarrysStyle the difference between school trousers and joggers/leggings is school trousers are usually unflattering and uncomfortable which is why girls don't want to wear them.
They wear the skirts instead but typically feel the need to 'rebel' and see what they can get away with (because that's what teens do!) but if they were actually allowed to wear more comfortable trousers they probably would.

Never mind skirts I don’t get the whole uniform thing.
We have young relatives in Canada. No uniforms of any description, teachers look like they should be selling the Big Isuue. Great education, love school and all either gone or going to Uni.

If all of the boys decided to "sag" their trousers like an American rapper, it would be inappropriate for school.

This is the same & we should stop turning everything into a feminist issue when it's not.

It is inappropriate to wear a skirt that barely covers your bum to school. How is that possibly something to debate.

If they wanted to wear a bikini top with their school shirt open to school would that be ok too?

I also hate the lie that teenage girls don't do this for male attention. I went to an all girl's school with three mixed and all boys' schools nearby, The fact that we didn't roll our skirt up into the end of the school day is telling.

Skirts by nature of their design restrict the movement of the wearer, 99.9% of time a girl or woman. Women's clothes have been deliberately restrictive over history and insisting on skirts at school could be a hangover from that. Uniform is a good thing if same for all, it does away with bullying based on how much jeans etc cost and means older looking pupils can be identified if playing truant. Girls and boys should have the same choice of skirt, trousers or shorts.

What has changed in society to make this such a big issue now? This was happening when I was at school 30 years ago and no one made a big thing of it.

It is the same at my dds school and they were lined up and measured too. She was fuming as it felt degrading.

My thoughts are that girls generally don’t choose trousers because they’re uncomfortable and unflattering. Leggings or joggers would be ok , but girls come in all shapes and sizes and therefore need different styles to be flattering. It’s not good enough to say that they shouldn’t care what they look like and should just get on with it as self esteem is important too.

Girls will roll up their skirts to make them more flattering and to feel more attractive. Like some will wear makeup, push up bras etc etc. I agree some take the skirt rolling too far, usually bigger girls with bigger thighs and hips, so it barely covers their underwear. I think embarrassing them by measuring the skirt is not the best way to manage this though and it’s better to turn a blind eye.

It always amazes me these days just how many parents immediately jump to the defence of the kids and their ‘rights’. Okay we rolled our skirts up at school and got into trouble for it. So what happened when we took the detention slip home to be signed by mum? Did she go to the school with a complaint that we were violating her DD’s rights? No she gave DD a rocket for spoiling her skirt and a warning that any more of this would result in consequences! Of course you know how I know this? This may be did not stop us but it made us a bit more careful and also we realised that flouting authority had consequences.

...what the actual fuck?
Girls should be taught it's their fault if men get distracted?

Are you having a laugh?

Absolutely this!

I'd get rid of uniforms completely.

My local secondary (11-16) has a strict uniform with logo'd everything yet pupils (male and female) find ways to bend the rules eg. rolled skirts, too tight trousers, adjusted ties etc. The school seems to spent a huge amount of time and effort attempting to police the uniform without great success, and there are frequent facebook posts etc from parents who are annoyed about their child being told off for eg. having a brand logo on their shoes. One argument often cited in favour of the school's approach is that it is more affordable for families and a leveller for the children. In fact, the (poor quality) uniform is incredibly expensive and poorer pupils still stand out as they often to have ill-fitting clothes as they grow in spurts and can't afford new uniform several times a year.

The 6th form that most of the pupils move on to has no uniform. For the first couple of weeks of term it's obvious that many pupils are making a huge effort on what they wear but after than almost everyone wears jeans and T shirt/hoodie. Parents almost unanimously say that it's much easier and cheaper, the school doesn't have to spend time and effort enforcing uniform and children say that they are more comfortable.

I know that lots of pupils stress about what to wear on non-uniform day but I suspect that part of this is that it's a 'special' day and not such and issue once the novelty wears off.

It never ceases to amaze me the big deal schools make about school uniform.

It's like the teachers and staff who work there never went to school themselves.

It really is no big deal as far as I am concerned. My daughter rolls her skirt up a bit and sometimes wears a ring when she isn't allowed but it doesn't detract from her studies etc.

My younger DS was a nightmare at senior school - always bunking off and getting into trouble but he didn't break the uniform rules! However his girlfriend at the time attempted to go to every lesson but more often than not was sent home because she wore Doc Marten shoes or had dyed hair.

All absolutely ridiculous!

Many countries don't even have a school uniform and they all seem to manage ok.

I just don't get the obssession.

I agree some take the skirt rolling too far, usually bigger girls with bigger thighs and hips, so it barely covers their underwear.

So not just a lot of internalised misogyny on this thread but fat shaming too! Is it okay for the slim of thighs and hips to roll up their skirts because they’re easier on the eye?

I wore very short skirts to sixth form. Could see my bum. It's not the uniform imo. I also wore short dresses and skirts to university.
I did right up to a few years ago when I started to look more like a melted candle than a svelte young lady!!!

I don't get the issue personally. Teenagers have looked daft since the beginning of time. Even EU teenagers dress badly(!) rn at my dc school there are teenagers wearing ripped jeans that are so tight their thighs are bulging out. But really whose business is that?! Is that really any better.

There's no need to measure fullstop, surely you know if a skirt is drastically short, if a school has lots of issues a blanket trouser policy is the solution. My school changed from shirts to polo tops to stop us messing with our ties, it didn't look as nice but our own fault for taking liberties.

@EmmatheStageRat

“So not just a lot of internalised misogyny on this thread but fat shaming too! Is it okay for the slim of thighs and hips to roll up their skirts because they’re easier on the eye?”

it’s not fat shaming it doesn’t bother me if they roll them up at all, each to their own, but it’s basically angles. If you have bigger hips (I am a case in point- but I’m too old to roll up a skirt) the angle that the skirt sits at will be different to those who are more straight up and down.

It's the school's business though. There's a reason there's a dress code.

For private schools especially if reflects poorly on the brand, as the students look a mess.

Same reason at my old school boys had to tuck their shirt in.

Why is it so terrible to teach students rules, discipline and basic standards?!

They went through all covid years choosing to wear leggings and hoodies. No one chose a skirt of any length.

might be easier to go back to that. 🤷🏼‍♀️

At my dc's school girls can't wear trousers but the skirts are designed so they can't be rolled up. And different skirts for each key stage
They have fairly strict rules about behaviour but more in a partnership way. They don't seem to have many issues in general.

Have you seen what some children wear when it’s a non uniform day? They may as well be naked!

@Soontobe60 when it's a one day a term non uniform day there is often more of an effort to dress up fancy but the teens I see where I live I would say it's very much the trackies/leggings/jeans combo on non uniform day. I rarely see teen girls in tenny tiny skirts and strappy tops unless they are going 'out'.
When it's no uniform everyday the novelty of dressing up soon wears off and most really don't make a big issue about what they are wearing.

Cannot believe there are schools in 2023 where girls can't wear trousers. Madness.

I know the preference amongst them today seems to be skirts, which as I say is very different to when I went to secondary in the late 90s/early 00s, but to actually ban them from wearing skirts... wow.

That would make me determined to wear trousers 😂