How do Asians and East Europeans e.g. manages to successfully to get their kids to revise long hours?

[examitis]

I'm not generalising here but, yeah I guess I am, based on speaking with some of my Asian and Russian friends, so am aware of how much their kids study for exams. Right through primary and now in early secondary.

Some started their revision after Christmas, others have been doing 10am-4pm stints over Easter hols preparing for end-of-year exams, on top of playing numerous instruments or sports or chess.

Before anyone says, 'poor kids, what about their social life and friends', the children I know who have a busy study schedule, all seem well adjusted. Maybe some do less sports than other kids but, on the whole, they're lovely.

A few of these kids are super bright thought most are like all the other kids in terms of ability, but they really seem to ace some of the tests (and get music exams) due to their incredible commitment and time spent revising.

Getting my kids to sit down for even an hour is like pulling teeth. One of mine is gifted but lazy!

I'd like to receive some advice on how to instill that drive and tips for how to structure revision and the after-school day. If at all possible.

Thanks.

Interesting, thank you.

I am assuming that most of the Asian and eastern European people you know are those who've come to the UK as immigrants, so you are seeing a fairly driven, achievement focused and hardworking subset of people from those places.

Some families are more driven than others I guess. If the parents have an internal voice saying "work hard, don't waste time, don't waste your opportunities" you'll often communicate that to your children (regardless of cultural background). I'm not an immigrant but many of my friends at school were (mostly 2nd gen) and it focused their minds watching their parents work their arses off day and night

I did, but they couldn't really explain it like this. Guess it's just something that comes natural if they were brought up the same. Perhaps generalising but then my friends say this is generally true across the board with their family/friends too!

You are generalising 🙄🙄

High value placed on education right from the start.
Lots of books and reading in the home.
Good teachers and interested parents who the child wants to please.
A desire to succeed and an understanding that playing football or being a YouTube star isn't going to cut it.

I'm not from the UK but was brought up in another country by two working parents in a culture where it is very much a case of you get on with it yourself. Tutoring was non-existent (and, I believe, is still!). The beauty of that, in a way, was that everyone was in the same boat, i.e. none of my friends would have had parents who 'helped' them with homework/revision etc. I guess everyone developed at different rates...

However, being in the UK, and also having gone through the 11+, I'm definitely more hands on than my parents were but less than many British and certainly some other cultures.But the issue, I guess, is that I get resistance from my kids and find it frustrating that my DC do not have the same drive as I did (which I had without any pressure from my parents/family).

The GCSE attainment statistics by ethnicity/FSM etc. show some interesting patterns

www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/education-skills-and-training/11-to-16-years-old/gcse-results-attainment-8-for-children-aged-14-to-16-key-stage-4/latest#by-ethnicity-and-gender

I was one of those kids, but I wanted to do well - like @HowIsItMarchAlready .

You hear it from a young age - praise for cousin x doing well, v smart.
Parents say: I work hard and spend money on your education, make sacrifices so you can have more opportunities and a better life than I had.
When I was young…..
They talk about careers - how relative y is a lawyer and got a first from top uni and has bought a big house now.

1 parent did want to do an artsy subject but was forced to do a business degree by grandparent.
So, as a reaction to that we weren’t pressured into the ‘usual’ stable jobs: doctor, lawyer, engineer, finance.
But academic success was prized.

It can be a lot of pressure - and it is bad for some kids.
Especially as they can focus on results as opposed to effort (I have purposely tried to do the opposite with my kids).

BUT, I did see that my parents genuinely were working hard/sacrificing to help us.
My mum used to stay up late with me to revise and tutored me to a scholarship (though no experience teaching).
This showed me that working hard did increase my chance of success - so I carried this on independently as a teen.
I think my brothers were generally lazier - but probably studied more than my English husband did.

did it pay off? I am a middle earner, but had a lot of choice due to doing well academically. I appreciate what my parents did for me and we have a good relationship.

Very true. I've also thought, how do these people (who are perhaps really pushed to the max in terms of their ability) cope when they go to university, when there is no longer access to family/tutors or other such support.

@summermode That doesn't really show much to be honest. It's helpful but 'white other' is a massive group. It could include Polish and Italian who have very different views on this subject.
I am glad though that we've started to accept culture plays a massive massive part. That's mainly what parents in independent schools pay for.
There was loads of money poured into closing the attainment gap of black boys, they dug into it and realised it was black Carribbean boys that needed more support. There is a really interesting interview about this which I can't find.

What utter claptrap.

I'm a UK born Indian with 3 children. I have never, ever demanded 'absolute obedience with harsh consequences' and yet all 3 of my children are high academic achievers who do not ever need to be forced to study or revise.

My eldest has her heart set on studying languages with politics at Exeter University. She is 14 and I have never forced any path on her. She goes to a state school and achieves top marks in all her subjects. She study's a lot in her spare time.

My middle child is working through extra study in order to sit an entrance exam for a grammar school this summer. Again, totally DC choice, DC wants to go to a different school to older DC.
DC is studying for mock exams and has been doing all of this academic year and spent year 4 doing extra studies for prep. Child is 10.

My youngest is 8 and is already looking at the entrance exam for grammar. Said child studies at home be it extra spellings or maths. Again, never ever forced.

They have all been raised with the same care, love and devotion.
They have zero interest in SM, because I haven't ever used it. If eldest wants to, she can but she'd rather read.

They do not game. Again, it isn't something I've ever done and so they're not fussed. I have said repeatedly that if they want to they can, all 3 think it's boring but they will spend hours and hours playing the piano, making a mess with creative pastimes and talking!

We have always been a very communicative household. We talk about everything including what choices they have in life. They can achieve whatever they want but THEY MUST work for it.

They are not suppressed unhappy children whatsoever.

It's to do with the consequences of failure, isn't it? If they're severe, you're going to get your head down (although a few will rebel or become depressed, especially if the course of study is a poor match for their interests and abilities).

If the consequences aren't that severe, see: retakes/clearing/adjustment/access courses/apprenticeships/years out (e.g. most qualifications aren't one shot in this country), you may slack off.

As a teacher, I fear many students are consciously or unconsciously absorbing that if they fail, the person in the most trouble will be the teacher!

Don't get me wrong: I wasn't scared of my mum. But I knew I always wanted to go to university and then do well in life, so to not do well academically did not fit in with my plans. Plans I 'formed' in middle school. Today I run my own company and am very wealthy even among my group of wealthy friends. I think much of that is down to not entertaining the idea of failing, at all.

@ComefromawayI don't think that's a reason to not push. People commit suicide for all sorts of reasons. This can be done in a loving way.

The post from IsThisRealLife is really interesting to me because I was that kind of DC and so was my DH. But we increasingly find our students aren't like that at all.

Interesting. Aha, have 2 DC who do enjoy gaming (especially now that so much of their social life is conversing - or if that's what you can call it ;) - with their friends) but trying to limit. Kids are also massively into their sports and play a lot of extra curricular matches.

I’m white but from a family with a similar culture/work ethic. Education was hugely important, we never questioned our parents and we’re expected to work hard. Mum sat with each of us for an hour or so after school in primary school making sure we knew our times tables, general knowledge etc. We were coached for the 11+ for years in advance through mum buying past papers.

Although from a working class family in a poor area, I have a first from Oxford. All my siblings went to good universities and did well. We have good relationships and respect for our parents.

However, I haven’t been able to replicate that with my kids as they live in a softer culture, and they have less fear of failure. Although they are ‘privileged’, I expect that kids from much more humble backgrounds will do better as they want it more/work harder.

Actually, in some ways, the ethos of working hard for success is a great one, isn't it. Guess what's nowadays called the 'growth mindset'. I'm definitely trying to instill that in my DC and they are at a selective school with high aspirations so something is rubbing off, but it's that rushed homework and doing the bare minimum which I find frustrating but then I was left to do my own thing. I believe in supporting and if they ask, you provide help, but I really do think that too much meddling is verging on cheating if there is too much parental input in written, submitted work.

@deplorabelle in my home country (I am from SE Asia), it is the norm for children to study for long hours. When I was growing up, I had 4 exams every year starting from age 6/7. My mum used to buy stacks of exam papers from at least 10 primary schools. On top of the 10 hours I spent on homework, and 10 hours i spent in tuition classes every week (my grandfather ferried me to different tuition centres and had his own timetable), I had to complete these test papers. My mum would mark all of them after she came home from work at 11 pm and wake me up at 5 am to go through my mistakes. I had to redo them if I failed to get a high mark. When I grew older and came to the age when I would take GCSEs, this got taken to a more extreme degree. There was something called ten year series, we had to complete all test papers for 10 subjects created in the last 10 years and achieve a good score on all of them or we had to redo them. This was the bare minimum. My home country is no 1 in maths and science in the world and I guess this is why. Hard core rote learning.

I am terrible at maths, but I got As in maths for national exams- GCSEs and IB. I was quite a stupid child but I got into a RG university to read law. This was considered a subpar performance. my IB score was 42 points (entry score to get into oxbridge is 38-40) but this was average in my school. I basically don't know anyone from my school who would not get into a RG university in a UK context.

@IsThisRealLife12 You've just perfectly described a household where the culture is academic achievement and hard work. It's nothing evil. Surrounding your child with love and the ability to be creative and successful isn't horrible. Older siblings setting a good example isn't evil. Not introducing your children to time wasting devices isn't mean. But people do and than ask how, how is your child doing so well at school.

I will never understand the hatred schools like Michaela get where this is exactly the culture they try to surround their students in. But maybe I'm just a child of immigrants.

I'm from a working class background though you couldn't say anyone was poor, but neither my parents went to university though they should have, especially my mother who was very academic. My DC would definitely be defined as 'privileged' so I guess less of that obvious stuff to aspire to. We'll see, they're both doing well but I'm just amazed at their different drive to what my DH and I had (my DC are boys).

@Meadowbreeze and its not evil to be the other way either
Not every child is academic no matter what
Many assume their children are happy and have a good childhood etc , many kids claim different when an adult though and thats not necessarily parents fault as often you doing what you think is right at the time
People should just do whats right for their families without back handed putting another families style down
Money and success does not always buy happiness either

People who manage to get their children to study hard don't care about being their kids' best friend, they don't care if the kids think they're being unreasonable. Also, the parents have zero self-doubt as to whether they're doing the right thing.

IMO @MolliciousIntent is spot on.

I have a SiL of one of these ethnicities (not in the U.K.) who was always extremely strict with her dcs. Music practice was done before school and if they played a wrong note she whacked them with a cane. 😱

The culture is very success-focused, and anything short of top grades is considered a failure. A niece who got very respectable A level grades - not straight As but good enough for a Russell Group university, only had local comments like, ‘Oh, dear,’ or ‘Never mind’ - poor girl - until she was congratulated by me and dh.

I will never understand the hatred schools like Michaela get where this is exactly the culture they try to surround their students in. But maybe I'm just a child of immigrants.

I don't understand it either. Michaela operate a zero tolerance policy on behaviour, and pupils know they are expected to work. I believe the school also gives advice to parents, such as, 'your child should be in bed by x o'clock, up at y o'clock and have clean pants and socks every day.

I think a lot of UK parents would resent this kind of advice, but there are many parents who really want a place for their child.

They also get excellent academic results. More schools should follow suit, but as soon as you say that, you get, 'my child with SN wouldn't cope there.' But I believe they do cater for SN children, with the emphasis on the children attaining their potential, whereas in mainstream schools, they are sometimes excused the work on the basis of their SN.

Obviously this does depend on the level of SN.