Unwanted School Imposition

[LisaRear]

Before the summer holiday, my DS's year was given a range of exams after coming back from Covid home education. The general results were poor for the whole year. The school is now seeking to impose a move into some easier subjects for many of these pupils, we feel to manage their generally good history of results. All the previous results for our boy contradict his own result, but the school is not budging. Apart from removal, or private, what remedy, legal or otherwise, do we have? We strongly feel that these subject choices will impact the future and wish to negotiate a longer evaluation period (such as up to Christmas), while some home support kicks in to ensure success. But the school is unwilling for this, we suppose as it might create a precedent.

From what subject to which subject and why do you believe it will impact choices going forward (unless from higher to foundation level)?

Are the subjects those that they would want to do at A level? If not, it is unlikely that a change would impact their future and better grades may help future choices than lower grades in certain subjects.

The school may be seeking to ensure their "results" look good but they will also be wanting the pupils to achieve their potential too.

What year is your DS?

@Seeline

What year is your DS?

11

@SeasonFinale

From what subject to which subject and why do you believe it will impact choices going forward (unless from higher to foundation level)?

Are the subjects those that they would want to do at A level? If not, it is unlikely that a change would impact their future and better grades may help future choices than lower grades in certain subjects.

The school may be seeking to ensure their "results" look good but they will also be wanting the pupils to achieve their potential too.

Sciences > Combined Sciences. Wants to do at least one science at A. Has a CATS at 8 for the three subjects. It's a selective school.

Also he doesn't need the pressure taken off in other areas, eg. all the humanities are soaring. The decision belies all past results and is therefore a move to bounce many pupils into an easier subject for a higher grade, for, I believe, the previously suggested reason.

Combined science won't stop him doing A levels in the sciences.

Maybe the school don't think they can get through all the extra work required for individual sciences in time for the exams. Two good passes in combined, would be much better than 3 poor grades.

@Seeline

Combined science won't stop him doing A levels in the sciences.

Maybe the school don't think they can get through all the extra work required for individual sciences in time for the exams. Two good passes in combined, would be much better than 3 poor grades.

Maybe, but as I mentioned lots of prev-tests indicate a consistently much higher score. He has been caught up in a trawl of many pupils.

And while your concerns seem focused on the perspective of the school, which is fine, my interest is to what extent - if any - are parents able to overturn diktats of this kind by schools, where a good case can be made that it is unjustified or ill-considered.

I'd be happy to instruct a specialist educational law firm, but I was wondering first - to avoid costs that may be wasted - whether this is even feasible? If anyone has a view on this issue here.

Surely by the time the legal side could kick in, you're beyond Christmas anyway? I don't see the legal route as a viable options given the time sensitivity of the situation.

Are there other families who are in the same situation? There's always more power in numbers. If the school has a problem to fix, it has to go with the solution which addresses the majority and so yes, the single case, the minority get swept up.

Have you explored with the school that your DS attended combined science classes but they enter him for 3 GCSEs rather than the 2 they propose. And you home school / tutor for the syllabus gap ? I would have thought that a better use of money and gets him learning what he needs to straightaway.

Maybe, but as I mentioned lots of prev-tests indicate a consistently much higher score.

But if the school physically haven't got time to teach the full syllabus in each science, I don't see what good taking them to court would do? Previous tests would only have tested what has been taught. Unfortunately GCSEs cover the whole syllabus. Teachers won't find out until February which areas the exams will concentrate on - it's probably a bit late by then.

Ds only did combined science at GCSE, most schools offer it as an option as the content cannot be covered in the usual core science lessons. He got 9,9 and achieved an A* for physics A level. At least half the A level class had "only" done the combined science as that is what a lot of schools offer. Several of the students going onto to study medicine at university only have combined science at GCSE.

I cannot see how it can massively impact your son's future. If he is an able and willing student then the jump from GCSE to A level will be totally manageable. This is about grades, surely parents would be complaining if their child got 7,7,7 instead of 9,9.

This makes me cross. My middle childhood to move schools as they wouldn't let them do four A levels. They'd rather they got three A* than four A or a mix. It should be about the student there and then. Not future whatever for the school.

@DPotter

Surely by the time the legal side could kick in, you're beyond Christmas anyway? I don't see the legal route as a viable options given the time sensitivity of the situation.

Are there other families who are in the same situation? There's always more power in numbers. If the school has a problem to fix, it has to go with the solution which addresses the majority and so yes, the single case, the minority get swept up.

Have you explored with the school that your DS attended combined science classes but they enter him for 3 GCSEs rather than the 2 they propose. And you home school / tutor for the syllabus gap ? I would have thought that a better use of money and gets him learning what he needs to straightaway.

If there is a clear legal case due to the lack of a proper school review, then we might hope that on seeing the seriousness of our approach the school may reconsider before things become bogged down. Otherwise your point is correct, it will be moot.

I can reach out to the parents of some of my son's classmates to enquire, but I would have to go through my child to do so, which would potentially make him quite awkward. I'll consider options here.

Yes, I was looking at online tutoring, testing and sitting the exams separately. Am unsure of whether the school would oblige here with three exams, because it is my belief they are trying to manage their results (being selective) and so that would defeat the purpose of this process for them.

I'll consider, regardless, thank you.

Surely if your son didn’t do well on that last exam it indicates that he’s not where he should be? His ability may be good but his performance wasn’t. So switching to combined science seems a proportionate response. It’s all very late to catch up if he’s in year 11

@SunshineCake1

This makes me cross. My middle childhood to move schools as they wouldn't let them do four A levels. They'd rather they got three A* than four A or a mix. It should be about the student there and then. Not future whatever for the school.

@SunshineCake1 there is no benefit to doing 4 A levels unless the 4th one is further maths usually in conjunction with maths. No university in this country, including Oxbridge, asks for 4 A levels. It is also a funding issue, further maths comes under a different funding hence why some sixth forms offer it.

@LisaRear all schools are about results how can they not be? When choosing a school most parents will look at results. Selective schools try to ensure higher results because they select their students.

Have all children been moved to combined or just those that did badly on the test? If all then even if you can persuade / force the school to enter your son for the separate sciences you may have a problem as they won’t be teaching for the separate sciences.

If just some then presumably you are asking for him to remain in the set that is doing separate even though his score was lower than the others in that set? Was he close to the borderline? Was there a reason that he did badly in this test but wouldn’t in the GCSE? Would school be willing to let him do a retake and let him stay up if he excels in it?

In the end though - the school is right. 9,9 looks so much better (for him!) than 7,7,7.

@BungleandGeorge

Surely if your son didn’t do well on that last exam it indicates that he’s not where he should be? His ability may be good but his performance wasn’t. So switching to combined science seems a proportionate response. It’s all very late to catch up if he’s in year 11

It's not remotely proportionate if it's not representative of either raw ability or when placed alongside previous exams and tests, it's an outlier.

@Mumoftwoinprimary

Have all children been moved to combined or just those that did badly on the test? If all then even if you can persuade / force the school to enter your son for the separate sciences you may have a problem as they won’t be teaching for the separate sciences.

If just some then presumably you are asking for him to remain in the set that is doing separate even though his score was lower than the others in that set? Was he close to the borderline? Was there a reason that he did badly in this test but wouldn’t in the GCSE? Would school be willing to let him do a retake and let him stay up if he excels in it?

In the end though - the school is right. 9,9 looks so much better (for him!) than 7,7,7.

Hard to know quite how many in the class but a significant number, not all.

Reasons? He doesn't engage so well sat at home at the end of a computer screen.

Just received a call from a senior partner in education law. Various options including taking LA to Judicial Review.

I think you should forget about legal stuff.

Your best bet is to negotiate with the school to stay in the current group until the next round of internal school tests and then if he is still underperforming they can move him then.

However personally I'd be tempted to go with what the school advise. Presumably he is 'behind' where they would expect triple science students to be right now and the school is thinking that consolidating combined science syllabus will be more beneficial than trying to learn an additional 50% of content. 8,8 is better than 6,6,6. Furthermore he might not be allowed to do science A level with 6s but would be with 8,8. Def check A level reqs.

@Seeline

Maybe, but as I mentioned lots of prev-tests indicate a consistently much higher score.

But if the school physically haven't got time to teach the full syllabus in each science, I don't see what good taking them to court would do? Previous tests would only have tested what has been taught. Unfortunately GCSEs cover the whole syllabus. Teachers won't find out until February which areas the exams will concentrate on - it's probably a bit late by then.

This. It will be about the time available in school to teach the syllabus.

Combined science is not easier than single sciences (aka triple) . You just do 2 GCSE's worth of modules rather than 3. Many schools are dropping triple science due to not having time to teach all of the content especially if it's a school where they cover the content in the same amount of time as triple science rather than it being a separate option.

Getting 77 in Combined science is much better preparation for A level than getting 666 for example.

We have signed him up to a range of curated online science learning options to benchmark where he is at, so additional teacher workload - for this one pupil - is low to non-existent, imho.

Honestly I would just let him do combined science and focus on science enrichment outside of school. It’s too late in the day to go the legal route and you’re risking a lot of stress for him.

Ability doesn’t matter though, it may not be totally his fault but he hasn’t kept up with the work and he isn’t at a standard to take triple science. They have only transferred the ones who are underperforming and most schools make it very clear to those taking triple science that that is what will happen. They either keep up or they have to take combined. There’s generally no extra teaching time for triple science so I’m not sure how you expect to catch your son up? It’s far better he gets a better mark for double science, it could be the difference between getting accepted for a levels and not. Some schools only do double, this isn’t going to hold him back.

The thing is the legal action will take too long, and the school is unlikely to accommodate just one kid in a different process (if they keep your DS at 3 sciences, then what do they say to the next parent who feel they have an equal case, and the next...)

Do you have any way to contact other parents? What about your DSs own friendship group? Anyone with a similar issue? Given the timing I suspect you need a few other parents to go talk to school as a group.

But, having said all that if the school thinks it physically can't get a cohort of kids through the full syllabus in the time available then they are right to shift to the combined one - not just for your kid but for all the students.

@BungleandGeorge

Ability doesn’t matter though, it may not be totally his fault but he hasn’t kept up with the work and he isn’t at a standard to take triple science. They have only transferred the ones who are underperforming and most schools make it very clear to those taking triple science that that is what will happen. They either keep up or they have to take combined. There’s generally no extra teaching time for triple science so I’m not sure how you expect to catch your son up? It’s far better he gets a better mark for double science, it could be the difference between getting accepted for a levels and not. Some schools only do double, this isn’t going to hold him back.

I've outlined how he can catch up. His other subject areas are consistently high and we have signed him up to a few online testing and learning platforms, to determine the gaps and to ensure he speeds back to where he needs to be.