Unwanted School Imposition

[LisaRear]

Before the summer holiday, my DS's year was given a range of exams after coming back from Covid home education. The general results were poor for the whole year. The school is now seeking to impose a move into some easier subjects for many of these pupils, we feel to manage their generally good history of results. All the previous results for our boy contradict his own result, but the school is not budging. Apart from removal, or private, what remedy, legal or otherwise, do we have? We strongly feel that these subject choices will impact the future and wish to negotiate a longer evaluation period (such as up to Christmas), while some home support kicks in to ensure success. But the school is unwilling for this, we suppose as it might create a precedent.

Even contemplating legal action over something that in the overall scheme of life is a trivial issue seems madness to me

Either your son will go on to do A levels/degree in a science subject or subjects in which case his GCSEs results are no longer relevant or he will take a non science route in which case his GSCEs in science won't be relevant

I assume you aren't an employer in a science field in which case your approach to CV sifting is going to lose you possible good candidates from the start

He has had the corrective and now is not the time for a structured retreat

Cannot help with the question at all but just had to say I am loving the OP's posting style.

*"Taking the pressure off" = "less work"

Many children are of course going to welcome less study, but this is a 8/9 month period in which, with with some proper scheduling, should not be too onerous when many other subjects are flying along just fine.*

You haven't actually answered my questions, though, OP. Your son is in year 11, not year 7, and he needs to take ownership over his own education if he's going to be successful at any Russell Group school, which will require real independence and self-determination. If you make the decisions without actually letting him have any agency, you're setting him up to fail in his future.

So, I'll repeat: "What are his career goals, and will a combined science GCSE really get in the way of that? And does he actually want to go to Oxbridge?

I hear a lot of you here, and that's fine--you want what's best for your child. But what does your child want?"

@Lolojojonesi

I'm a prof at a Russell Group uni, and we have to pick up the emotional damage that overly (pointlessly) competitive parents leave behind. He'll be fine if he goes down this route, and under less pressure. I feel sorry for your son and the school. Contemplating legal action - honestly.

I have to tell you that your experience with those parents is not our approach. We were aware of a dip after getting the reports, we worked gently to bump those results, then because of the general poor year results the school found they had, they made a decision that was based on their interests, not the children's - in my opinion. They are unresponsive to negotiation, to date, and therefore they have narrowed the range of options open to us to do what we feel is best.

@BungleandGeorge

I’ve never put my GCSEs on an application form as an adult!

Exactly.

You might include A levels along with your degree for your very first job, but not GCSE.

OP, I totally get why the school's attitude has irritated you, it sounds very high-handed and not terribly pupil-focused.

That said, I think you're choosing the wrong hill to die on here. As others have explained double science isn't easier than triple, it's just less content. It in no way diminishes your son's opportunity to take science A levels in the future should he be so inclined. Some very good scientists actually opt for double to enable them to take an extra language, or humanity instead.

Are you going to answer my question about the two applicants with the same number of GCSEs properly? Or was your one word answer confirmation that would would discriminate?

@Nancydrawn

*"Taking the pressure off" = "less work"

Many children are of course going to welcome less study, but this is a 8/9 month period in which, with with some proper scheduling, should not be too onerous when many other subjects are flying along just fine.*

You haven't actually answered my questions, though, OP. Your son is in year 11, not year 7, and he needs to take ownership over his own education if he's going to be successful at any Russell Group school, which will require real independence and self-determination. If you make the decisions without actually letting him have any agency, you're setting him up to fail in his future.

So, I'll repeat: "What are his career goals, and will a combined science GCSE really get in the way of that? And does he actually want to go to Oxbridge?

I hear a lot of you here, and that's fine--you want what's best for your child. But what does your child want?"

He has a range of options he is considering including various elite universities. His true love is history, but he is at least was until the summer, a very good all-rounder and his life aspirations fluctuate somewhat. I'm not sure about your own fixed ambitions at 15, but we wish him to excel in a wide range of areas so that when he finally comes to make that decision he has a good grounding across the board.

He is determined and able enough and I see no reason why he cannot retest on these subjects soon enough to again fully outline this capability.

@titchy

Are you going to answer my question about the two applicants with the same number of GCSEs properly? Or was your one word answer confirmation that would would discriminate?

My point was that all hirers make decisions about a wide range of issues and to frame it as 'discrimination', the bête noire of the moment is a little silly.

Bloody hell I feel sorry for your kid. You're giving him absolutely no agency about his own future at all.

No wonder he's a "quiet" child when his mother is so completely overbearing

@fdgdfgdfgdfg

Bloody hell I feel sorry for your kid. You're giving him absolutely no agency about his own future at all.

No wonder he's a "quiet" child when his mother is so completely overbearing

Mother knows best?

they made a decision that was based on their interests, not the children's - in my opinion

I’m not following your logic behind this. The schools decision was to switch students from triple science to combined science to ensure the best GCSE results attainable under the circumstances. How is this not in the children’s interest too? Don’t the children want the best grades they can get too?

I do not see any conflict of interest or competing needs. Especially since, as many knowledgeable posters have pointed out, there is no advantage to triple science over combined science when applying for A levels or university.

You also haven’t answered whether your DS is even interested in a science career at all! There is only so much time and effort left, it’s a fixed resource. Does it make sense to expend extra effort on triple science which gives no advantage at the expense of other subjects?

Except mother often does not know best and the best mothers are the ones who recognise that and step back.

I see your DS prefers history. Then honestly, I think you are being very unreasonable to insist on triple science. It’s putting pressure on your DS that is wholly unnecessary. He’d be better off doing combined science and working to get an 8 or 9 in history and English Lang, English lit.

@PlanDeRaccordement

I see your DS prefers history. Then honestly, I think you are being very unreasonable to insist on triple science. It’s putting pressure on your DS that is wholly unnecessary. He’d be better off doing combined science and working to get an 8 or 9 in history and English Lang, English lit.

I totally agree with this.

This thread would be hysterically funny if it wasn't for the fact there is a poor child at the heart of it whose mother is not supporting his best interests.

@PlanDeRaccordement

they made a decision that was based on their interests, not the children's - in my opinion

I’m not following your logic behind this. The schools decision was to switch students from triple science to combined science to ensure the best GCSE results attainable under the circumstances. How is this not in the children’s interest too? Don’t the children want the best grades they can get too?

I do not see any conflict of interest or competing needs. Especially since, as many knowledgeable posters have pointed out, there is no advantage to triple science over combined science when applying for A levels or university.

You also haven’t answered whether your DS is even interested in a science career at all! There is only so much time and effort left, it’s a fixed resource. Does it make sense to expend extra effort on triple science which gives no advantage at the expense of other subjects?

Our child, as I have no pointed out repeatedly, can get the best grades, was predicted to get the best grades, has previously got the best grades, except for this recent dip which is unreflective of him.

You don't need to have an intention of a career in science to study GCSE. But to be told that because of X you're now doing Y is a confidence knock that he will overcome and get back on track. If I can help it.

Saved by the school run...

I guess you need to think about where you want your son’s (and your) time and resources to go here.

Is triple science really the be all and end all for a lad who wants to do history at Oxford? There has been another thread on what future Oxbridge entrants should be doing to improve their chances of getting in. There were a lot of suggestions about national level essay competitions etc. Might that be more useful?

Not RTFT what a levels does your son want t to do? What career is he aiming for? Is science necessary?

Private study and privately enter is one of my leading options, yet will have to consider the implications of this because clearly it will clash with the other GCSEs unless we pull them out of the school last minute.

The combined science papers are usually sat at the exact same time as the separate science papers. So my physics combined class sit their physics paper 1 at the exact same time as my physics separate science class sit their paper 1. Sitting both would require them to be sat one after another with little / no break and at the same exam centre. The majority of state schools do not allow external candidates to sit exams at their sites. Being pulled out at the last minute and sitting all his exams at an unfamiliar exam centre would add significant stress to your son. This option is likely to be the very worst for him.

I agree with what others have said - if your DC is behind his classmates he would most likely be better off following the school's advice. As an A level teacher I'd far rather be teaching a student who achieved 9-9 in combined science than a student who got 7,7,7. A student who has achieved top grades in combined science has demonstrated that they are able to properly apply their understanding to an unfamiliar context, whereas a good grade is possible with rote learning content and limited ability to apply the knowledge.

Our child, as I have no pointed out repeatedly, can get the best grades, was predicted to get the best grades, has previously got the best grades, except for this recent dip which is unreflective of him.

I sense some cognitive dissonance. It gets progressively harder to get the best grades the further you go in education. So past performance is no guarantee of future performance. Nor are predicted grades. The truth is you cannot know if your child can get the best grades in everything but your belief that this is so must result in immense pressure on your DS to perform. You haven’t said it, but I feel you would be disappointed in your DS if he did not get 9s across the board.

I have 4 DC, 3 are adults. They’ve all gone on to elite universities. This is the time, not later, to start encouraging extra effort and focus on the subjects they want to pursue beyond secondary school and to relax a bit on the subjects that are of no consequence for their future. The do best in everything approach is a blunt hammer that results in burnout/stress. You need to take a more surgical approach because children also need to start learning how to balance school work vs life at this stage.

Just to confirm, you've spoken to a lawyer and posted here 44 times but you haven't yet met with the school. Or even phoned them Just email comms to date.

You seem more concerned with drama and the prospect of an epic battle than outcomes for your son. Who you say is a quiet boy and does not want to be in the middle of any conflict

But to be told that because of X you're now doing Y is a confidence knock that he will overcome and get back on track. If I can help it.

It’s only a confidence knock if you have the belief your DS can get 9s in everything and he has been indoctrinated to also believe that. Most parents would be telling their child that secondary school is when they find out what subjects they’re especially talented in and like the most. And that everyone has different talents and passions. If DS is going to study history, so what if he’s not the best at physics? Or French? Doesn’t matter. And it’s no shame on him to not “get the best grade” of a 9 in those subjects that have no bearing on his aspirations.

Unless you are making him feel ashamed.

@OnTheBenchOfDoom "there is no benefit to doing 4 A levels unless the 4th one is further maths usually in conjunction with maths. No university in this country, including Oxbridge, asks for 4 A levels. It is also a funding issue, further maths comes under a different funding hence why some sixth forms offer it."

There is a benefit if
(1) you are able enough to cope with the demands
and either
(2) you are not yet sure what you want to do at university and don't want to rule any options out at the start of year 12
or
(3) you want to learn more things for their own sake.

Maximising grades shouldn't be the only aim of education!

I have possibly missed the answer, but is this the whole year or just a select few? If the whole cohort, school are looking at what they can see pupils have covered/learnt/embedded. If individual they have done the same process except looked in detail at each child and what they know. Maybe it was across the board, not just the work covered virtually. Being able to provide opportunity to revisit some areas, instead of cramming in more topics superficially.

What grounds are unfair, have they not applied the criteria consistently? What is written in their guidance for selecting triple science, does it say if progress not maintained, they revert to double? Schools normally have final say on exam entry. I have 11 GCSE's, most in my school did 9, I am sure no-one looks at them, except to check English and Maths - I only did double science, but took 2 science A'levels, a BSc and a science Masters. What "harm" do you feel results - not sure you could prove detrimental impact from the change, as you appear to be the only employer that considers the difference important when everyone else can't identify an impact. They may be a "child", but they also can make decisions themselves and you can't make them work.

Just LOL at this entire thread. Somehow I managed to limp my way through the Oxbridge admissions process with a MERE DOUBLE SCIENCE AWARD AT GCSE LEVEL! Perhaps it simply slipped beneath the admissions radar and it is now only a matter of time before it is discovered and my degree is withdrawn entirely!