Unwanted School Imposition

[LisaRear]

Before the summer holiday, my DS's year was given a range of exams after coming back from Covid home education. The general results were poor for the whole year. The school is now seeking to impose a move into some easier subjects for many of these pupils, we feel to manage their generally good history of results. All the previous results for our boy contradict his own result, but the school is not budging. Apart from removal, or private, what remedy, legal or otherwise, do we have? We strongly feel that these subject choices will impact the future and wish to negotiate a longer evaluation period (such as up to Christmas), while some home support kicks in to ensure success. But the school is unwilling for this, we suppose as it might create a precedent.

@Takeachance18

I have possibly missed the answer, but is this the whole year or just a select few? If the whole cohort, school are looking at what they can see pupils have covered/learnt/embedded. If individual they have done the same process except looked in detail at each child and what they know. Maybe it was across the board, not just the work covered virtually. Being able to provide opportunity to revisit some areas, instead of cramming in more topics superficially.

What grounds are unfair, have they not applied the criteria consistently? What is written in their guidance for selecting triple science, does it say if progress not maintained, they revert to double? Schools normally have final say on exam entry. I have 11 GCSE's, most in my school did 9, I am sure no-one looks at them, except to check English and Maths - I only did double science, but took 2 science A'levels, a BSc and a science Masters. What "harm" do you feel results - not sure you could prove detrimental impact from the change, as you appear to be the only employer that considers the difference important when everyone else can't identify an impact. They may be a "child", but they also can make decisions themselves and you can't make them work.

According to the OP it is those who scored below avarege on a recent test

And I can spell average, I was just trying to type too fast.

@BadSeedsComeAndGo

Just LOL at this entire thread. Somehow I managed to limp my way through the Oxbridge admissions process with a MERE DOUBLE SCIENCE AWARD AT GCSE LEVEL! Perhaps it simply slipped beneath the admissions radar and it is now only a matter of time before it is discovered and my degree is withdrawn entirely!

Take photocopies, just in case

My Ds is at a ss grammar. The school offers triple and combined science. They made a huge fuss (pre covid) about myth busting for combined science. It is not easier, it doesn not preclude study at A level and more of their students who went onto to study medicine had combined science than triple.

So, unless they're lying, you've made assumptions as an employer and a parent about combined science that isn't true.

Many kids take combined science to allow them a different third GCSE, not because they're not capable of triple science.

However, all that said, if you're not happy with the school's take on this, as a customer, presumably you have a choice and that's to pay a different school to do what you want them to do.

If they have re-timetabled their teaching groups, turning one or more into combined, the numbers might mean it's not be straightforward to move a pupil

If he's applying for Oxford for history, a full half of his shortlisted rankings will be due to a contextualized GCSE score. If the difference is between him getting 7s in triple science and 9s in double science, you'd be cutting off your nose to spite your face. This is particularly true as he'll be compared to how his peers did.

Cambridge traditionally cares less about GCSEs than Oxford does. For them, it's particularly A-levels, which means he'd be burning himself out for relatively little reward.

It's much better for him to get eight or nine really excellent GCSEs, including combined science, than for him to get six excellent GCSEs and three good-but-not-great ones in the sciences.

The reason I asked about his interests is because this might matter, say, if he were determined to go into medicine. But if it looks like he is interested in applying in history (or the humanities or social sciences more broadly), I'd argue that it's far more important for him to concentrate on getting the best possible grades in those subjects, so that he can study for three excellent A levels and an EPQ.

@MissKeithsNeice

Just to confirm, you've spoken to a lawyer and posted here 44 times but you haven't yet met with the school. Or even phoned them Just email comms to date.

You seem more concerned with drama and the prospect of an epic battle than outcomes for your son. Who you say is a quiet boy and does not want to be in the middle of any conflict

Yes, that's right. we've taken associate advice, legal advice, school advice, and forum advice as a prelude to determining next steps.

@BadSeedsComeAndGo

Just LOL at this entire thread. Somehow I managed to limp my way through the Oxbridge admissions process with a MERE DOUBLE SCIENCE AWARD AT GCSE LEVEL! Perhaps it simply slipped beneath the admissions radar and it is now only a matter of time before it is discovered and my degree is withdrawn entirely!

Congrats but if you hadn't mentioned your subject area it would be clear enough from the conclusions you've drawn indicate that you didn't study logic.

Pot kettle black much

But seriously, it's really not good to insult posters who are taking the time and effort to give you some good advice when it is perfetly clear to all that it is your own logic that is lacking.

Congrats but if you hadn't mentioned your subject area it would be clear enough from the conclusions you've drawn indicate that you didn't study logic.

To be fair OP, that is in itself not the most eloquently written sentence.

I think that poster was making a joke.

I agree with others here; combined science doesn't preclude A level, and after th e18 months that the current year 11 have gone through, education-wise, they may be wise to take any concession offered.

As everyone says, 9-9 or 8-8 is a lot better than 7, 7, 6 or 6, 5, 5. And that goes for wherever you are applying post-16 or post-18. I don't put my O levels on my CV but I don't have physics because I wanted to do an extra language. I wish combined had been an option in those days as I note my lack of physics knowledge on a frequent basis.

I would meet the school and see what they say. Ask your son what he thinks. Find out exactly what has happened - how many have been moved and what will it mean for their timetable. I am not saying the school is always right, but it sounds to me as tho this will in fact be of benefit for your son.

Sciences are an odd one. My ds was considered Ed able enough in science to do them 3 separately but he struggles a lot with reading and it required quite a large amount of independent study.

He did the combined and got a double 9.

It's likely he'd have had 7,8,8 separately so it worked out better in the end.

@Comefromaway

But seriously, it's really not good to insult posters who are taking the time and effort to give you some good advice when it is perfetly clear to all that it is your own logic that is lacking.

You do give the impression of someone who perpetually haunts this forum looking for the cues to add your snark at the back end of each post. It's repetitive, needy and a little tiresome, which is why I've muted much of my responses to your comments.

@clary

Congrats but if you hadn't mentioned your subject area it would be clear enough from the conclusions you've drawn indicate that you didn't study logic.

To be fair OP, that is in itself not the most eloquently written sentence.

I think that poster was making a joke.

I agree with others here; combined science doesn't preclude A level, and after th e18 months that the current year 11 have gone through, education-wise, they may be wise to take any concession offered.

As everyone says, 9-9 or 8-8 is a lot better than 7, 7, 6 or 6, 5, 5. And that goes for wherever you are applying post-16 or post-18. I don't put my O levels on my CV but I don't have physics because I wanted to do an extra language. I wish combined had been an option in those days as I note my lack of physics knowledge on a frequent basis.

I would meet the school and see what they say. Ask your son what he thinks. Find out exactly what has happened - how many have been moved and what will it mean for their timetable. I am not saying the school is always right, but it sounds to me as tho this will in fact be of benefit for your son.

You may be correct, I've had to dip in and out, replying as courteously as time and other calls on my time allow.

We are intending to ruminate on all this before deciding the best approach.

I've been on this website since 2002 and I can honestly hand on heart say I have only ever been supportive to posters looking for advice. I do like to deal in facts and will not give incorrect and misleading information or advice to anyone.

I am pretty sure that the other posters on this particular thread will not agree that I have been at all snarky.

I can confirm that @Comefromaway is always supportive and helpful (on this thread and plenty of others).

You don't really want to hear any alternative views by the sound of it.

@crazycrofter

I can confirm that *@Comefromaway* is always supportive and helpful (on this thread and plenty of others).

You don't really want to hear any alternative views by the sound of it.

Read the thread if it's important to you, I've engaged with plenty of constructive points.

The thing is, even if you are totally right and your DS would recover to get 9,9,9 I still don't think talk of legal action is the right thing to do.

Neither do I think attempting to do the subjects independently. If nothing else, the school has to sign off he has done/seen the required practicals.

By all means have a proper conversation with the school, but let the school do its job, and then support your DS in whatever they decide.

@LisaRear

"Mother knows best?"

Mother knows how to end up with an adult son who wants absolutely nothing to do with her, that's for sure

Whats the drop off OP - where does your son normally sit attainment wise in science and what were the results of this test - whether that is in form of a % mark or a GCSE grade or schools own grading system

Anyhoos. Do take a look round the rest of MN while you're here.

I have no doubt your refreshing tone and commitment to a thread would be welcome right across the site.

Wow, you have been so spectacularly rude, particularly to @Comefromaway.
I cannot imagine why his school aren't really engaging with you
Thank goodness he's not at my school is all I can say.

It is normal for schools to decide who is allowed to do 3 sciences and who isn't. The decision is taken according to likely end result. No one can see into the future, predicted grades are "likely" not definite. Sometimes if students feel very strongly, we do allow individuals judged best off in double science to attempt triple science, but only for a limited period, and we move them back to double before entries are done, if they have not demonstrated higher achievements.

You can ask the school for a longer trial period, they might agree to that, but the end result might well be the same.

It does sound like your son would be better off doing double, and getting higher grades. He might have got high grades previously, but clearly not in the exam that really mattered, which might have been under circumstances far closer to real GCSE exams than his previous tests - they might have been based on individual units, much shorter, or open book tests, for example

I would be very content as a compromise for the school to have my child do 2 science in school and one at home. But state inflexible, unlike paid.

Combined science (aka double) is still three subjects, just at lesser depth than Triple.

I don't know why people are so upset.

Combined science has less science in it than Triple science. There are areas not covered in CS and while you can of course do A-level science, there will be some areas other students will have a slight head start in.

There is nothing wrong in pushing your child to do better.