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Secondary education

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Original poster

Unwanted School Imposition

186 replies

LisaRear · 04/10/2021 09:47

Before the summer holiday, my DS's year was given a range of exams after coming back from Covid home education. The general results were poor for the whole year. The school is now seeking to impose a move into some easier subjects for many of these pupils, we feel to manage their generally good history of results. All the previous results for our boy contradict his own result, but the school is not budging. Apart from removal, or private, what remedy, legal or otherwise, do we have? We strongly feel that these subject choices will impact the future and wish to negotiate a longer evaluation period (such as up to Christmas), while some home support kicks in to ensure success. But the school is unwilling for this, we suppose as it might create a precedent.

OP posts:
Original poster
LisaRear · 04/10/2021 12:56

@Comefromaway

Your assumptions would be wrong then. Combined science is not a more superficial coverage.

Foundation level (in both combined and triple) is easier.

That's not logical. If you condense three science GCSEs into two to enable pupils to be less stretched, then clearly it is a shallower overview than you would get from covering three subjects.
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Original poster
LisaRear · 04/10/2021 12:58

@myrtleWilson

Just echoing your assumptions about combined are wrong. Many schools only offer combined. Plus post a-levels and degree a CV would only list number attained at grade range and confirmation of specific grade requirements met for (usually) Maths and English. It seems to me your assumptions are possibly driving a decision that may not be in your son's best interests.
I see CVs periodically and that's not many look when they come across my desk
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Comefromaway · 04/10/2021 13:00

That's not how gcse's work.

BungleandGeorge · 04/10/2021 13:00

I’ve never put my GCSEs on an application form as an adult!

titchy · 04/10/2021 13:01

Because I wish him to continue on and do all three subjects to the required level, not a more superficial coverage that's reminiscent of the old divide between CSE/GCE. Because if I saw combined science on a CV it would cause me to have some initial assumptions.

Wow! Clearly you know fuck all about the difference between Combined and separate. If you are a recruiter do better. Angry

Comefromaway · 04/10/2021 13:02

It's obvious that you truly beleive you know best in which case I would suggest that you try home education.

Original poster
LisaRear · 04/10/2021 13:04

@titchy

Because I wish him to continue on and do all three subjects to the required level, not a more superficial coverage that's reminiscent of the old divide between CSE/GCE. Because if I saw combined science on a CV it would cause me to have some initial assumptions.

Wow! Clearly you know fuck all about the difference between Combined and separate. If you are a recruiter do better. Angry

I'm an employer

And if you are going to use expletives to cover up for supporting a point, I would suggest you look to your own advice.

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Original poster
LisaRear · 04/10/2021 13:04

@Comefromaway

It's obvious that you truly beleive you know best in which case I would suggest that you try home education.
I do not have the time
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titchy · 04/10/2021 13:05

Sorry that comment's got me really annoyed. If you saw a CV with Physics and Chemistry GCSE but no Biology, would you be equally as dismissive? After all the same number of GCSEs has been taken and the same number of modules studied.

Comefromaway · 04/10/2021 13:07

If you are an emploer I would suggest that your incorrect assumptions are leading you to be prejudiced against what may be some excellent candidates.

I never swear but I recognise that a well placed expletive can covey a meaning better than anything at time.

You are going to have to either make time, or trust the school's judgment on this one.

Original poster
LisaRear · 04/10/2021 13:07

@BungleandGeorge

I’ve never put my GCSEs on an application form as an adult!
Perhaps, but it's done. And many organisations look at GCSEs. Oxford admissions for instance consider GCSEs alongside As. If - and I hope not, but - he decided against tertiary study, then they would have added weight to complement the As.
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Original poster
LisaRear · 04/10/2021 13:08

@Comefromaway

If you are an emploer I would suggest that your incorrect assumptions are leading you to be prejudiced against what may be some excellent candidates.

I never swear but I recognise that a well placed expletive can covey a meaning better than anything at time.

You are going to have to either make time, or trust the school's judgment on this one.

I will make time for remedial support, not full time oversight.
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Original poster
LisaRear · 04/10/2021 13:09

@titchy

Sorry that comment's got me really annoyed. If you saw a CV with Physics and Chemistry GCSE but no Biology, would you be equally as dismissive? After all the same number of GCSEs has been taken and the same number of modules studied.
That doesn't follow. If the missing science was replaced with another subject then that would be the same overall number. If it wasn't - as in Combined Science - then it would not.
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TeenMinusTests · 04/10/2021 13:11

8,8 would look better on a CV than 6,6,6 any day of the week, (and for Oxford).

PanelChair · 04/10/2021 13:15

Your best first step (as others have said) would be to speak to the school, to hear direct from them why they’ve taken this step.

If you’re determined to take legal action, go ahead, but be aware of what it can and can’t achieve. JR (if it goes ahead) will examine whether the school’s decision was reasonable in the legal sense and you might struggle to persuade the court that it wasn’t, if (as you seem to be saying) the decision is based on tests in which your son under-performed. Your legal adviser should be able to assess your chances of success.

FWBNC · 04/10/2021 13:17

I really don't think you know what you're talking about, despite trying so very hard to sound well educated & superior.

W00t · 04/10/2021 13:17

If it's a selective school,then it's likely they're an academy, in which case they answer to DfE and an LA judicial review would be of no use, surely?

FWIW, I have a Y11 child currently, taking dual science as they didn't want to lose an option choice which is what happens for those opting for triple science in her school. It's a super-selective grammar, and plenty of those choosing to take dual science go on to study science A Levels without difficulty. She's on track for 9-9, and has already been told she'll be welcome to take chemistry and physics A levels.

Comefromaway · 04/10/2021 13:18

You do realise that all schools do a different number of GCSE's? The average is 9 but some do 8 and a few do 10.

Have you talked to any Oxbridge admissions tutors recently? Oxford look at overall GCSE performance and would expect mostly 7, 8 and 9's but they are much more interested in A level results. Most RH universities look at either the best 6 or best 8 GCSE results. Some use a scoring system and lower grades at triple science would score lower than higher grades at combined science.

PlanDeRaccordement · 04/10/2021 13:18

Because if I saw combined science on a CV it would cause me to have some initial assumptions.

But that would only happen if he left school after GCSEs? If he’s going to do A levels and not go to university, then A levels would be on CV. If he goes to university, then only his degree(s) will be on CV.

AnInspectorBores · 04/10/2021 13:19

@LisaRear, you're obviously certain that you know best and have already consulted a lawyer. Many people have taken the trouble to post with advice, but I am finding your replies both arrogant and dismissive. What are you hoping to achieve from this thread?

titchy · 04/10/2021 13:20

That doesn't follow. If the missing science was replaced with another subject then that would be the same overall number. If it wasn't - as in Combined Science - then it would not.

But how would you know what an applicant would have done?

Candidate A has 10 GCSEs including Combined Science. Candidate B has 10 GCSEs including Physics and Chemistry (no Biology). So you discriminate against the first but not the second?

Comefromaway · 04/10/2021 13:20

"There are no GCSE (or equivalent) requirements for entry to Cambridge. GCSE results are looked at as a performance indicator, but within the context of the performance of the school/college where they were achieved.

Applicants have generally achieved high grades in subjects relevant to their chosen course, and most students who apply have at least four or five 7/8/9s at GCSE

Our research shows that post-16 examination performance is a much better predictor of degree success at Cambridge. "

W00t · 04/10/2021 13:21

further maths comes under a different funding hence why some sixth forms offer it
@OnTheBenchOfDoom
Are you sure? AFAIAA only ESFA fund A Levels, all subjects. There is additional Maths Premium available, but it applies to Maths A Level, not just Further Maths.

Original poster
LisaRear · 04/10/2021 13:21

@PanelChair

Your best first step (as others have said) would be to speak to the school, to hear direct from them why they’ve taken this step.

If you’re determined to take legal action, go ahead, but be aware of what it can and can’t achieve. JR (if it goes ahead) will examine whether the school’s decision was reasonable in the legal sense and you might struggle to persuade the court that it wasn’t, if (as you seem to be saying) the decision is based on tests in which your son under-performed. Your legal adviser should be able to assess your chances of success.

That's our intention. To put before them a series of compromise steps and to only utilise a pre-action letter or JR if this fails, preceded by a Pre-Action latter. So we have shown a willingness to compromise.
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titchy · 04/10/2021 13:21

Oxford admissions for instance consider GCSEs alongside As.

And Oxford would rather 2 x 9 than 3 x 7....