Affordable education near North London

[hibbledibble]

In case grammar options don't work out, I'm keen to do anything possible to avoid the local (dire) state secondaries. Any suggestions for decent schools where admission is not by distance, or private schools that are not the most expensive? I would likely not receive any bursary at all based on the online information, but due to the cost of London living, multiple children with high childcare bills and others expenses, could certainly not afford the 'premium' private schools eg Channing, Highgate, South Hampstead

@hibbledibble

Sammy What are you basing that on? I know it's Ofsted 'outstanding' but that doesn't mean a lot in reality.

The behaviour both in and out of the school is appalling, and there are a lot of gang issues. The pupils are also not infrequently murdered, soon after finishing school. Seeing pupils pull knives out on each other after school, it's something I want for my child.

A lot of schools have bad students and potential gang members etc. Obviously some schools are much better than others in terms of environment etc but anything can happen anywhere.

My cousin went there and did well and went Woodhouse for sixth form and then Kings College London university. He is 30 now though, so maybe the school has gotten really bad since he left/

Sammy I'm glad it worked out for him. It does currently seem like a very rough environment though. I don't know what it was like in the past.

@hibbledibble

Sammy What are you basing that on? I know it's Ofsted 'outstanding' but that doesn't mean a lot in reality.

The behaviour both in and out of the school is appalling, and there are a lot of gang issues. The pupils are also not infrequently murdered, soon after finishing school. Seeing pupils pull knives out on each other after school, it's something I want for my child.

The Ofsted report is really positive. It's based on an area with really high rates of deprivation, probably one of the highest in the country. Just going by the ofsted reports it looks like they do amazingly well considering the challenges that a lots of the kids will have outside of school. Sadly the gang issue is a symptom of a much wider social issue that's acutely felt in an area like South Tottenham. Moving may be your only real option if you want to get away from it (it shouldn't be, though)

Yes, it's clear that the local area has a lot of issues, and that the children at the school have little in terms of parental boundaries or input judging by their behaviour. The deprivation index is high, but not quite the highest in the country: that's further north in the borough.

Gladesmore used to be a really outstanding school in an difficult place. The head teacher Tony Hartney, managed to get a ton of funding from two private companies back in the 2010s. It was used to supplement teaching in maths, further maths and science but that funding ended in 2017/2018. I've not been involved with the school since but it had an amazing rep for a long time. I'm not sure it should be rubbished so quickly, but i think all the staff and senior teachers knew they have a gang problem, even back then! They are stuck with that a bit due to geography, not sure if there is anything that can be done about after school behaviour but in school they were pretty strict.

@SunnyAfternoonInWinter

Gladesmore used to be a really outstanding school in an difficult place. The head teacher Tony Hartney, managed to get a ton of funding from two private companies back in the 2010s. It was used to supplement teaching in maths, further maths and science but that funding ended in 2017/2018. I've not been involved with the school since but it had an amazing rep for a long time. I'm not sure it should be rubbished so quickly, but i think all the staff and senior teachers knew they have a gang problem, even back then! They are stuck with that a bit due to geography, not sure if there is anything that can be done about after school behaviour but in school they were pretty strict.

Yes

I really respect teachers who work in schools in difficult areas. Yes i know they are getting paid and its their job, but not everybody can live in Muswell Hill, Finchley etc and not everybody comes from a good background/good family. The Gladesmore headteacher has been relentless in turning that school around as it was terrible many years ago.

@sammyvine it's hard one because London schools lost A LOT of funding in the last cuts in 2017. I remember when I was I bombed with gladesmore they were going to lose something like 60% of govt funds over 3-4 years. It was a lot. I'm sure that's had an impact but it was a remarkable school for a long time. I'm sure that still remains but we should all remember that all state secondaries in London are in very tough financial positions. They've had crazy cuts and told to supplement their budgets by renting out their halls for weddings and events etc. Covid will have hit their budgets even further. Sorry OP digression on my part!

[quote SunnyAfternoonInWinter]@sammyvine it's hard one because London schools lost A LOT of funding in the last cuts in 2017. I remember when I was I bombed with gladesmore they were going to lose something like 60% of govt funds over 3-4 years. It was a lot. I'm sure that's had an impact but it was a remarkable school for a long time. I'm sure that still remains but we should all remember that all state secondaries in London are in very tough financial positions. They've had crazy cuts and told to supplement their budgets by renting out their halls for weddings and events etc. Covid will have hit their budgets even further. Sorry OP digression on my part! [/quote]
That obviously meant to say worked with gladesmore not bombed. I blame trying to write this late at night feeding the baby.

I'm afraid there is a lot of that in other schools in Haringey too. It's just not outside your door. Whether it's gang recruitment or victims of gang violence. A mixture of increased romanticising of gangs through pop culture and video games and massive cuts which are immediately felt by pastoral provision was the perfect recipe for this.
This is a contentious topic and I'm sorry I really disagree with you that these kids have little in terms of parental boundaries. That's something I experienced in private schools not at schools like Gladesmore. Your local kids probably behave drastically different at home.
Also, social media influence has also played a massive parts in kids in general thinking they are entitled to everything and all and cancel culture allows them to do as they please. This has driven out thousands of great teachers. TES recruitment is neverending.
The problem I'm afraid is bigger than Gladesmore and I'm a little worried that you'll be unpleasantly surprised that your kids going somewhere else won't solve your worries.

Do you think this is a London specific problem @meadowbreeze ?

Some very informed posters on this thread.

sammyvine

The school has certainly not turned bad since your cousin left and if they've been any changes it's been fairly minimal.

The thing is that schools like Skinners,Park View and Gladesmore can only work with the cards they are dealt with and so far so good they are doing amazingly well as can be seen by their ofsted report. Your cousin was probably one of the small amount of High achievers that attended these said schools. Most High attainers tend to have parents with the sharpest of elbows who know how to play the game and therefore send their Kids to various grammars and selective schools in and around London. It's little wonder they are not doing any better when most of their brightest brains in an already deprived area have been creamed off. Oh btw look this article below.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.hackneygazette.co.uk/news/education/student-tells-his-journey-from-hackney-and-tottenham-to-oxford-6547712&ved=0ahUKEwjSoNz-_ovwAhWUXRUIHaA2DGgQxfQBCCIwAA&usg=AOvVaw1x2Qvt6SDMtbWELrPCKpRd" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.hackneygazette.co.uk/news/education/student-tells-his-journey-from-hackney-and-tottenham-to-oxford-6547712&ved=0ahUKEwjSoNz-_ovwAhWUXRUIHaA2DGgQxfQBCCIwAA&usg=AOvVaw1x2Qvt6SDMtbWELrPCKpRd

This is an article about one of it's student an ex Head Boy. He won a scholarship to Wellington college after attending Gladesmore then went to Oxford. It does not get any better than that.

hibbledibble

About students getting killed not along after leaving the school, I can't only think of one recently and that was the Highly publicised case of Tanesha. It's also worth remembering that She was one year removed from the school when it happened and neither was She involved in any Gang Activity. The last I can think of before the 2018 incident was another girl in 2009. As with Tanesha, She was a year removed from the school and went to the Pub to have some fun(like we all do) with friends before a gang member decided to shoot the place up. I don't see how you can blame the School for the actions of two trigger happy idiots. Surely the blame lies elsewhere?

@ilkleymoorbartat no. Definitely not. County lines is a huge problem currently. We recently had a training event run by MP Haringey about this and they reckon most of the violent crime is stemming from that now instead of strictly London drug operations.
I will not lie to OP, this is a problem, particularly if she has a BAME child, but it will be a problem wherever she goes and OP, as you are not planning to move I would say there is safety in knowing your local kids.
Sadly the case is, this is only getting worse the more rich people are creaming off gang music and culture. There is a lot of woke undercover racists who are accepting certain behaviours because it is helping their purse. It is starting to effect private school kids as they really romanticise the lifestyle perpetuated by TikTok and other social media. I'm sure they'll figure out a way to put an end to it once their kids start dying.

Definitely look at Hornsey School for girls

Elij sadly there are a lot more stabbings and shootings of current and former pupils than those that are widely reported on, or often their school is not in the reporting, but it is well known locally. Tottenham is a bit like a village, we all know each other, and word travels fast. I completely agree that the local middle class families are snubbing the local schools often, but not always. Often their is no other option. I do know some who purposely move and rent elsewhere for the duration required to get into a better local schools like APS. It's actually pretty common to do this.

Weaselish Hornsey is likely a decent option. I hope to be able to view it.

[quote SunnyAfternoonInWinter]@sammyvine it's hard one because London schools lost A LOT of funding in the last cuts in 2017. I remember when I was I bombed with gladesmore they were going to lose something like 60% of govt funds over 3-4 years. It was a lot. I'm sure that's had an impact but it was a remarkable school for a long time. I'm sure that still remains but we should all remember that all state secondaries in London are in very tough financial positions. They've had crazy cuts and told to supplement their budgets by renting out their halls for weddings and events etc. Covid will have hit their budgets even further. Sorry OP digression on my part! [/quote]
I know politics is controversial but it’s sad that the current government keep getting voted in despite all these cuts. Don’t people care?

quite a few schools have back-door entry routes. Eg Mary Magdalene in Islington has 'Governor places' given via an aptitude test (I think in theory language aptitude, but I've heard it's more NVR). Camden School for Girls has music places. Marylebone Girls has performing arts. William Ellis has music (tho I think you have a girl?) I am sure there will be loads of others too.
Which year is your child in now (ie when will they enter secondary)?

I agree that there is a lot more than those mentioned. It is very underreported unless the parents know someone or it was a child of some sort of prominence sadly.

I get the impression that the St Marylebone girls performing arts places are easier to get than the CSG music places. Very unscientific but every local girl I know went for the CSG place. The few who went for the St M places all got them.

You get six preferences so could afford to put CSG, St M and Mary Magdalene in there. Youv’e got no decent dead certs in those but you’re not going to get those unless you do things you aren’t prepared to, or can’t do. Like moving primary or moving house.

You say you don’t want to move primary schools as your two younger children are settled but also that you’re eldest is bored at primary. You could try for a place for your eldest at a feeder primary to Mary Mags and keep the others at the school they’re happy in.

www.christs-hospital.org.uk are boarding and I think do decent fee reductions.

I know it’s probably not what you want to hear but kids can and do do well at schools which might make MNers twitch. And they often have a perfectly nice time and make decent friends.

Gladesmore is actually a good school. You should be considering it, at least as a back up option. It's in a different realm from Park View/Dukes academy/etc.

The thing is OP, you live in N15. You child is going to have proximity to these awful issues unfortunately. We grew up not far from where you likely live and my brother had to deal with a lot of crap outside on the street, zero issues inside of it. He was actually stabbed in a posh part of Camden.

I used to ride the C11 with La Sainte Union students, and that was worse than being on the 41 with Hornsey Girls students but there's likely more to both schools than their behaviour on buses.

(zero issues inside of school*)

If you have daughters then Henrietta Barnett is an option but they take the top 90 from maybe 4000 girls. A tutor will be essential. Have you looked at Highgate School? I believe it is improving.

Namechanged for this for obvious reasons

I live in (and grew up in) one of the 'nicer' parts of north london mentioned elsewhere in this thread..my kids are approaching secondary school age and we live close by several schools and colleges.

There are huge problems with county lines, stabbing, gangs, etc etc etc. Including at some of the 'nice' religious schools.

The police sometimes come to monitor things when the schools finish around 3.

It's very worrying. Especially as I have a son,who's already a handful at 6 years old.

At the same time, many many kids from families I know go to these schools without any problems at all.

I think it is part and parcel of growing up here. It wasnt like this when I was growing up here in the 90s. It is now.

I dont know what the answer is, but it's not about being in a slightly nicer or less nice part of north London, imo.

OP, when I used to work on that area I worked with someone who lived in Edmonton, so either N9 or N18 who sent their DC to a school in Broxbourne. Would that be an option? I don’t know which school, sorry, possibly Broxbourne school and it’s only about 20 mins on a train from Tottenham Hale or Seven Sisters. You can use Oyster up as far as there as well.

You could look at which schools in neighbouring boroughs weren't sufficiently oversubscribed to need to apply their distance cut-off.

A quick look at the booklets for Camden and Islington suggests that Haverstock had enough places for all applicants, as did City of London Academy Highbury Grove. The former is generally regarded as a good, if under-recognised school. I don't have up to date info on Highbury Grove, but it has gone through periods of being sought-after and periods of definitely not.