Affordable education near North London

[hibbledibble]

In case grammar options don't work out, I'm keen to do anything possible to avoid the local (dire) state secondaries. Any suggestions for decent schools where admission is not by distance, or private schools that are not the most expensive? I would likely not receive any bursary at all based on the online information, but due to the cost of London living, multiple children with high childcare bills and others expenses, could certainly not afford the 'premium' private schools eg Channing, Highgate, South Hampstead

@sammyvine - I don't think the Conservatives have won in London for a long time, but generally yes it's crazy how the country keeps voting.

@hibbledibble

Elij sadly there are a lot more stabbings and shootings of current and former pupils than those that are widely reported on, or often their school is not in the reporting, but it is well known locally. Tottenham is a bit like a village, we all know each other, and word travels fast. I completely agree that the local middle class families are snubbing the local schools often, but not always. Often their is no other option. I do know some who purposely move and rent elsewhere for the duration required to get into a better local schools like APS. It's actually pretty common to do this.

Weaselish Hornsey is likely a decent option. I hope to be able to view it.

hibbledibble

Eventhough I still feel the figures are a bit over exaggerated, I think most of the blame lies with the surrounding area itself not the school. Despite this, the school Still sends it's brightest pupils to selective Sixth-forms like Woodhouse and London Academy of Excellence who in turn sends them to Russell group unis.

As it has already been said by previous posters, the school does exceedingly well by it's pupils but unfortunately they can't control what the Kids get up to outside of it's premises and neither can they change it's surrounding areas.

@ChairmansReserve

Namechanged for this for obvious reasons

I live in (and grew up in) one of the 'nicer' parts of north london mentioned elsewhere in this thread..my kids are approaching secondary school age and we live close by several schools and colleges.

There are huge problems with county lines, stabbing, gangs, etc etc etc. Including at some of the 'nice' religious schools.

The police sometimes come to monitor things when the schools finish around 3.

It's very worrying. Especially as I have a son,who's already a handful at 6 years old.

At the same time, many many kids from families I know go to these schools without any problems at all.

I think it is part and parcel of growing up here. It wasnt like this when I was growing up here in the 90s. It is now.

I dont know what the answer is, but it's not about being in a slightly nicer or less nice part of north London, imo.

Doesnt Fortismere have a big drug problem? Thats a very middle-class/high performing school so its not just the bad schools that have problems

Many North London schools - even the selective ones - have some kids who abuse drugs. The question to me is whether they are safe. Parents don't want their kids anywhere kids who carry knives because all it takes is the wrong glance and things escalate quickly. That's a whole different matter than cannabis use.
As I said earlier in this thread, I know parents who have almost bankrupted themselves in other well regarded postcodes to avoid the unpopular schools 4 miles away because there are no schools locally.
OP - you mentioned religious schools may be an option and I'm assuming Jewish? If so, try for JCOSS (reform) which is very good and has coaches from all over London, Herts and Essex.

I've also heard Fortismere has a big drug problem. A lot of the wealthy middle class kids are usually the ones doing drugs. The kids involved in the selling and getting stabbed are the ones less well off.
I didn't grow up in London but back then it was always the better off kids who did drugs.

This thread is really informative but incredibly depressing. I'm also in primary in one of the 'nicer' areas mentioned. I realise we're not in anyway immune to these problems but it's making me want to ship out!

@ilkleymoorbartat It is sad and depressing and the numbers are higher than mentioned but this is an extremely populated borough and compared to numbers of kids here, it is a small minority who this effects.
Yes there will be a number who leave school and end up doing drugs/get into gangs but shipping out isnt always the solution. This is no different to the lovely towns and villages in the west country. They may not have gun and knife crime but rural poverty and isolation isnt a joke and drug abuse effect a lot of young people growing up in picturesque villages.

However when it is in your direct vicinity and you see it daily, it is hard not to worry for your kids and do all you can to keep them safe. Most kids grow up in cities perfectly fine and very well adjusted to dangers and actually very street wise.
There is a lot of positives in growing up here too. It's been a while since we've been able to experience those but it is a great place.

Sorry total digression but I think / I believe that the general U.K. population and maybe even Mumsnet has forgotten about school cuts from 16/17/18. There was so much press at the time but then Brexit took over and now covid. School budgets were torched alongside everything else by DCam & G Osborne et al.

We had these problems when funding was at an all time high in the 2000s. There is far more correlation between social media/pop culture and drug and knife crime than there is with funding cuts.
Pouring money into something is only good if it is managed well. The problem with the education system is it's very expensive to run and when money got cut, the system wasn't reshuffled so a lot of schools are struggling to keep teachers on higher bands.
A lot of these problems are blamed on money, and yes that helps but actually when we run stuff aimed at those kids who we feel would be a target to these horrible things, they don't turn up. This has always, and will always be a problem and it is not something money can solve.
Unfortunately parents in postcodes like N15 are all too familiar with the effects of this and no amount of promising that a school is good will convince them of it when a kid their DC age was stabbed on their road.
I will stop derailing OPs post now.
I wish you all the best and hope your DC get into a great school you're happy with.

Knife crime rose by 22% in 2017. The biggest ever increase. Obviously tories will deny it but the office for national statistics say this is based on NHS injury reports. Or tories blame it on social media, yet the police say it is down to huge cuts to police and youth services. Sad situation.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/violent-knife-crime-rise-stabbing-murders-reasons-increase-london-why-a8326171.html%3famp

Hi @hibbledibble! Empathise and sympathise with you. Been there with our daughter ... !

We live in North London. I work with schools and am happy to tell you more by PM if you wish.

I feel a bit of a need to defend the area after this thread, to give a bit of balance. While there is undoubtedly local deprivation, it is also an area that has been undergoing gentrification for some time. There are a lot of middle class professional families in the area. Housing is not cheap either, with houses in the high end of six figures, and sometimes in the seven figures.

It's very much an area of two halves. I don't think it's necessarily fair to blame all the issues in local schools on the area, but there are clearly social issues locally. Children being exploited by gangs and knife and gun crime are major issues here. I know it happens in all areas, but it definitely happens more in some than others! I have personally witnessed a lot. Drugs are very tame compared to what happens locally, and it would be disingenuous to pretend that fortismere has anything like the issues that Gladesmore has, though obviously the drug trade does feed into the other issues.

@ChrissyPlummer

OP, when I used to work on that area I worked with someone who lived in Edmonton, so either N9 or N18 who sent their DC to a school in Broxbourne. Would that be an option? I don’t know which school, sorry, possibly Broxbourne school and it’s only about 20 mins on a train from Tottenham Hale or Seven Sisters. You can use Oyster up as far as there as well.

It's almost certainly The Broxbourne School who have twenty places for students with an "Aptitude for Languages". I knew a girl who got in there under that criteria, much to her parents surprise.

You don't have to have a second language, the test is not assessing that. It's looking for aptitude. I think they play recordings of people speaking another language and you have to guess whether they're happy, sad, angry or whatever, that kind of thing. Bit odd.

But would a child really benefit from being that far removed geographically from a school where most of their friends will live in the immediate area? I don't think so. They will miss out on a lot. There is a big value in local friends.

Plus Broxbourne is very Tory, quite Brexitish and not very diverse; it will be a wholly different culture to inner London.

^ This is very true

I know a Nigerian family whose son went there. They said it was very white, very few non whites. They ended up moving him out of the school after bullying and he now goes Central Foundation Boys School in Islington which they are very happy with.
Be very careful going to that school if you are not white.

There is unfortunately no way of ensuring your DC getting into a good school unless you move next to one. Even if your eldest get into a grammar, full grammars don't have siblings policy so you would need to go thru the whole thing with every child. If you have several DC, then a move might be worthwhile in the long run. There are defo more demand on places at good schools, either because indie fees are too high or because parents prefer state education. There are lots of people buying/renting for school places, while also prepping for 11+ at the same time.

If you can't or don't want to move, just remenber that there will be sensible and able students in those schools. If there is a large enough group of students at every ability group, then there will be enough momentem for the students to work towards their goals.

I used to live in Wood Green and found some areas intimidating, but at least back then it was cheap to live there.

Curve ball suggestion but if you are truly not wealthy how about Christ’s Hospital?

www.christs-hospital.org.uk/

@hibbledibble This might sound crazy but if you're near Tottenham Hale have you thought about trying for the Chelmsford grammars? There is no catchment and I always see 2 or 3 of their kids on the train to Stratford with me. Absolutely tons at Stratford station. The route is very easy and as the schools are walking distance from the station it isn't actually a very long journey. They are easier to get into than N London ones but obv still quite competitive.

@hibbledibble OP, I've read this thread with interest as grappling with a very similar dilemma (N17 not N15 but same problems)

Curious to hear which school you are going with and why?

Hornsey does feel like the best option to us.

[quote 10YellowTulips]@hibbledibble OP, I've read this thread with interest as grappling with a very similar dilemma (N17 not N15 but same problems)

Curious to hear which school you are going with and why?

Hornsey does feel like the best option to us.[/quote]
Do you live far from APS? That is supposed to be a really good school.

Highgate Wood School has improved a lot and many people seem to be happy with it. It is very diverse as well/

Joining this post very, very late, and @hibbledibble , you may have already applied to second schools by now if your daughter is in Y6. If not, please feel free to DM me. We live in the same area as you and are looking at independent school options, albeit for different reasons, and have identified a few with less extortionate fees.

@OnikokoMum would you be able to share what you’ve found?

I would go for Skinners, I think it's a great option for an anxious, clever child - strict, good behaviour. Results are average but if you're worried about school gate behaviour I'd go with a school with impeccable behaviour and systems. Realistically her academic results will be fine, you want to ensure she's safe and happy at school.

Can I ask where you ended up in terms of secondary schooling?