Attending a Catholic School as a non-practicing Catholic

[KateBlush]

My DD is highly likely to be allocated a place a Catholic Girls School tomorrow. I'm interested in what her day-to-day experience might be like for non-practicing pupil.

From school visits and communication coming out of the school, its catholic culture seems pretty all-pervading. DH is catholic (I'm Anglican) and our children are baptised catholic, but religion is not part of our daily lives and if pushed, we both feel pretty negative about the church. It's an 'outstanding' school and academically very strong. It's also unapologetically old-fashioned - combined with the faith factor this worries me a bit - might this be a potentially stifling environment for a non-catholic?

Do any of you have children at faith schools where the faith is not a determining factor for you - how do your children fare? Do they feel excluded in any way? Does it feature in every part of their school experience? Thank you.

So why did you apply then?

There’s also no way or knowing without knowing the specific school - some catholic schools are more Catholic than others!

But yes, it will probably feature in lots of their school experience. My children are at a Catholic school and my DH teaches in one. Prayers at the start and end of every lesson. Daily collective worship, more for things like Ash Wednesday. School residential retreats, their RE curriculum will be geared towards Catholic Christianity.

If she's baptised Catholic, she's a Catholic. Whether she believes or chooses to practice it, is up to her.

I wish these sorts of schools that perform religious indoctrination were not allowed to be funded by the public purse, but even if they must be, why on earth would you send your daughter there if you are a non-practising family? The Catholic church's position on women's rights is pretty dodgy OP. Is that really what you want for your daughter?

My DH is catholic, kids are too.. I'm not religious at all. Its not part of our daily family life.

I picked the local RC primary for my kids 'much to DH surprise), over local primary, as it has a lovely community feel with a push on Christian values rather than being as religious as other RC primary option.

Eldest is now at RC secondary.. Its the best choice for our area. He is not religious. His decision. Doesn't want to do confirmation. It doesn't bother him in any way and there are others like him. His only moan...assembly can be a bit boring & he will have to take RE as a GCSE option.

One of my parents went to catholic school... They comment on how different it is than their day... Better understanding of other faiths, better sex education, more about how to live your life/values, acceptance of others etc etc

Yes I'm curious as to why you applied, OP?

We applied because we live in a town where all secondaries are oversubscribed. Children routinely don't get allocated a local school at all each year. We live less than 100m from the Catholic school so it would have been madness not to include it and risk being sent several miles away to another district. Because DD is baptised she qualifies under the admissions criteria. It's our banker, but not our preferred option.

@happytoday73 that's encouraging. I reckon she (and we) could live with that

I went to a Catholic girls school in the eighties and I wasn't Catholic - I would have said I was CofE at the time, but only in the cultural sense of accepting what I was told at school and going to church with the Brownies and sometimes with my Gran.
I'm sure a lot of things have moved on since then, but the overall experience is relevant.
At first I was anxious to not stand out as different, so I quickly learnt the Catholic hymns and prayers, sign of the cross etc (there was a prayer beginning and end of each lesson). I was curious about all the different rituals so I went along to the optional masses and asked my new friends questions about it. I remember being told not to take communion, which was fine. On one occasion there was a Confessional set up, and I was told not to give confession but to ask the priest for a blessing instead. None of this made me feel left out - I just thought it was interesting. But from about year 9 onwards I started to feel more cynical and less shy about speaking up. I remember being taught about original sin in RE and telling the teacher I hadn't been baptized ... she was clearly a little taken aback. I was bemused by the effect it had, and from then on I remember asking more searching questions, and sometimes giving a wider perspective than expected in my essays. For example, I wrote an essay on abortion which made it clear I was pro-choice, and it got a very high mark, but came back with a Life charity sticker on it! I also made one teacher visibly cross by questioning the idea of transubstantiation. I was always respectful in how I phrased the questions though, and the fact I was generally top of the top set probably helped my confidence. I do think it was good for the teachers and students to hear someone openly questioning those ideas. I think it was character-forming for me to be in a minority and was certainly good for my critical thinking and debating skills.

It definitely depends on individual schools, but I reckon they all have the religion at the centre of their outlook. I've got children at Catholic high schools (one an all-girls school) and the religion pretty much pervades everything. It's at the heart of the ethos, is present in and around the school in terms of daily prayer, school mass - including saying the creed ('I believe in one God..'), (lots of) statues, paintings, icons, school motto, school crest, hymns, school values, school residential trips (religious retreats & trips to places like Lourdes), day trips, visitors to school (nuns, priests etc), preparation for taking sacraments (confirmation), having to take RE as a compulsory GCSE - which means one less choice of subject (and the focus is largely on catholic christianity), having to take RE as a compulsory extra lesson at sixth form, extra curricular activities(things like the St Vincent de Paul society), fundraising events for catholic missions, CAFOD etc. The schools aim to produce young catholics, with a catholic outlook on life. Not much has changed in regards to pervasive religious atmosphere since I was at catholic school myself. If you're not on board with all this, then it might stick in the throat a bit, but I guess it's what you sign up for if you choose a catholic school.

@Biscuitsneeded

I wish these sorts of schools that perform religious indoctrination were not allowed to be funded by the public purse, but even if they must be, why on earth would you send your daughter there if you are a non-practising family? The Catholic church's position on women's rights is pretty dodgy OP. Is that really what you want for your daughter?

All publicly-funded schools in England and Wales legally impose religious worship - by law they have to provide daily collective worship, even in schools with no specific religious designation - and in these schools the worship must be "wholly or mainly of a Christian character". and "promote spiritual, moral and cultural development" through religious education. So all schools funded by the public purse are performing religious indoctrination. You've just got to pick your indoctrination of choice. Catholic schools are just one of those choices. Other schools have different religious outlooks with which to indoctrinate - but they all have to offer one, and it's skewed towards christianity.

I would imagine most of the children attending are non practicing, whatever label their parents choose to stick on them.

I went to a faith school but it didnt dominate, I never paid attention to services etc. Hopefully your DD will be fine and get a good standard of education.

@PotteringAlong

But yes, it will probably feature in lots of their school experience. My children are at a Catholic school and my DH teaches in one. Prayers at the start and end of every lesson. Daily collective worship, more for things like Ash Wednesday. School residential retreats, their RE curriculum will be geared towards Catholic Christianity.

Every lesson?! 😱

@LunaHeather

I would imagine most of the children attending are non practicing, whatever label their parents choose to stick on them.

I went to a faith school but it didnt dominate, I never paid attention to services etc. Hopefully your DD will be fine and get a good standard of education.

Most of the children at catholic high schools will be practising catholics, in my experience, and from families with generation after generation of practice (most go to weekly mass, are baptised, go to confession, will make their confirmation, parents [if married] were married in the church etc). That's not to say it'll be different in some places, and that all children will be practicing, but I think most are likely to be.

We would not apply for a place at a school contrary to our beliefs 🤷‍♀️

Bucolicky location probably makes a difference.

That said, I might have a different definition of practicing in terms of how much an 11 year old believes in it. The one in my class who took religion very seriously sticks in my memory.

I don't care what their parents believe, I knew I was an atheist from aged 8 I think. I'm sure lots of children are chugging along with the family faith pattern but that does not mean they believe it and I hope OP child will not feel at odds with other DC.

When were your children baptised OP?

If you have reservations about Catholicism and the Church, why baptise them and apply for Catholic school?

You’re probably taking the place from a practising Catholic who wants to go there.

@Wondermule

When were your children baptised OP?

If you have reservations about Catholicism and the Church, why baptise them and apply for Catholic school?

You’re probably taking the place from a practising Catholic who wants to go there.

Wondermule, the op has already explained why she's applied for a place and she has just as much right to apply as anyone else. She shouldn't be guilted into making her child travel a long way to another school just so a "practising" Catholic can travel a long way in the other direction.

But the child's opinion is important. I told my parents I wanted to go to the Catholic school. If I'd gone unwillingly it might have been a different experience. For one thing, when I told my parents about some of the eyebrow-raising things I was taught they were able to say "Well you were the one who wanted to go there!"

My school experience was a long time ago however, everything Bucolicky says applied to my Catholic secondary school. We had our own chapel on site, Fridays were mass days, every holy day of obligation we were in chapel too.

The retired priests lived on site in a large house that was also used for visiting Catholic priests and nuns to stay. They gave talks on their missions as missionaries, spreading the word of the Catholic faith. Prayers every lesson and compulsory RE GCSE.

There was an enormous sense of community, pretty much everyone attended church every Sunday, we were all baptised, confirmed and had at least one parent who held their faith strongly.

I am no longer Catholic, my family is though so my sons have been raised to be respectful of the beliefs of others. You can ask questions, which they did of my Mum, but respectfully.

@Biscuitsneeded: All publicly-funded schools in England and Wales legally impose religious worship

Actually they don't. They may be legally obliged to, but when Ofsted announced in 2004 that they would no longer inspect for it they estimated that 76% of schools weren't compliant: www.theguardian.com/education/2004/jun/11/schools.uk.

The only reason the law hasn't been changed is because our House of Lords is dominated by an non-elected glut of church representatives. An attempt was made in 2011 but the Lord's blocked it.

P.s. A BBC poll in 2011 indicated that 64% of parents in England say their children do not attend a daily act of worship at school: comresglobal.com/polls/bbc-collective-worship-poll/

@ScrabbleOriginal well of course, but it seems silly to apply and then complain about it.

Mine are in a Catholic school and we are not of any faith. They go because our school system in this county is sadly mucked up and getting them into the feeder primary was a way of ensuring they got into a good school.

They don't mind. Yes there are occasional masses to go to and assembly includes prayer. They have retreats but tbh they are not hugely religious, I think the non Catholic kids benefit from the mindfulness aspects of those and the activities they do.

Mine are a bit miffed that they have to do RE as GCSE but we treat it as study skills so my teen is learning to use RE to practice academic writing skills, analysis and debate etc.

Ultimately they are in a good school with a friendly community to it.

@Wondermule "it seems silly to apply and then complain about it."

No, that's a silly thing to say. These are complex choices and many people are just seeking the least worst option. Better to go to a school of your choosing and be realistic about its flaws than have no say at all in where you go.

[quote Wondermule]@ScrabbleOriginal well of course, but it seems silly to apply and then complain about it.[/quote]
Not really- the OP has explained why she applied to to this school, and 'applying' doesn't mean it is her first choice. Parents have to consider many factors when thinking about the best school for their child, and you get between 3 and 6 preferences to apply for when in many cases only 1 or 2 of these are realistic in meeting the admissions criteria/being within a reasonable distance to travel to. I can see why the OP wouldn't want to rule this school out based on the religious aspect if in many other ways it is a 'better' school than others she may be offered.