Attending a Catholic School as a non-practicing Catholic

[KateBlush]

My DD is highly likely to be allocated a place a Catholic Girls School tomorrow. I'm interested in what her day-to-day experience might be like for non-practicing pupil.

From school visits and communication coming out of the school, its catholic culture seems pretty all-pervading. DH is catholic (I'm Anglican) and our children are baptised catholic, but religion is not part of our daily lives and if pushed, we both feel pretty negative about the church. It's an 'outstanding' school and academically very strong. It's also unapologetically old-fashioned - combined with the faith factor this worries me a bit - might this be a potentially stifling environment for a non-catholic?

Do any of you have children at faith schools where the faith is not a determining factor for you - how do your children fare? Do they feel excluded in any way? Does it feature in every part of their school experience? Thank you.

I'm sure you're not claiming to speak for all schools

I'm a school governor and I'm very aware of what all the schools in my area do. I suggest you look at the non-faith schools in your own area and see how many collective worship policies you can find. They're certainly few and far between in London.

there are plenty of 'em who ... form their own catholic/muslim/jewish/other faith youth groups and who do charity and community work based around their faith. Without being forced!

This is exactly how it should be ...interest groups forming within mixed schools voluntarily ... but the "mandatory" Christian collective worship specified in law is gradually becoming a things of the past.

@ScrabbleOriginal

I'm sure you're not claiming to speak for all schools

I'm a school governor and I'm very aware of what all the schools in my area do. I suggest you look at the non-faith schools in your own area and see how many collective worship policies you can find. They're certainly few and far between in London.

Ah, London. Like most people, I don't live there. Perhaps things are different in other towns and cities throughout the land. I won't patronise you by saying that I suggest you look outside your own hometown, but maybe things in London aren't entirely representative of everywhere else.

@Bucolicky I have looked outside my own home town. Have you? In fact have you even looked within your own home town? It's not hard. Just look at a website for a random non-faith school, navigate to the policies page and look for the collective worship policy.

Our school does have one filed away ready to brush off if it's ever needed, but we don't follow it and it certainly isn't on the website.

And like most people who live in London, I'm from somewhere else very different so perfectly capable of looking outside of the M25 for other perspectives.

@AnneElliott

Lots of non catholics like catholic schools because of the discipline. I know several Hindu and Sikh families that send their girls to catholic schools because they believe in the overall ethos.

I went to a CofE school and half the school was white and half Asian (unusual back in the 80s). But it was a great community school and we celebrated Diwali with the same effort as we did Christmas. Lots of the Asian families liked the ethos and all kids joined in with everything.

DS went to an RC primary but preferred an academy school for secondary. The RC secondary was on his list but 3rd place as we'd have been mad to risk the dodgy comp just because he'd decided he wasn't as keen on the religion side. But my nieces and nephews went there and their only complaint was it was strict and they had to do RE. Not something I'd be worried about as a parent.

And if they went to an RC Primary then a non religious school can be a bit of a shock. DS was surprised just how rude some kids are to their teachers when he first went to secondary.

Yes I definitely think Catholic schools are more disciplined, but this is also true of Catholic parents. Not sure why, it might be because with more kids you need to run a tighter ship? Or because kids from bigger families have less individual attention and therefore less self importance? Maybe they adhere to the teachings of respecting people?

I personally want my child to go to a Catholic school because I know the school would support the way I choose to raise her - it’s that simple.

Which is what makes it so annoying when people cheat genuine applicants out of places, they don’t realise how much it matters to us because religion is a load of nonsense to them. It’s arrogance really.

they don’t realise how much it matters to us

And you don't realise, or care, how much it matters to them! You are so convinced of your own entitlement that you are blinkered to any of the other reasons why people might choose the same school. You think your reason trumps theirs, but it doesn't.

@ScrabbleOriginal

they don’t realise how much it matters to us

And you don't realise, or care, how much it matters to them! You are so convinced of your own entitlement that you are blinkered to any of the other reasons why people might choose the same school. You think your reason trumps theirs, but it doesn't.

Of course it does, because ^that is the bloody admission criteria* which THEY are cheating!!!!!

No, they're not cheating the criteria. They have a baptism certificate so are entitled to apply. They might have lied to get the baptism certificate but, as noted up thread, the ability to lie to priests has been built into the nation's psyche over many generations ... probably dating back to times when people who didn't lie to priests were routinely executed!

@ScrabbleOriginal

No, they're not cheating the criteria. They have a baptism certificate so are entitled to apply. They might have lied to get the baptism certificate but, as noted up thread, the ability to lie to priests has been built into the nation's psyche over many generations ... probably dating back to times when people who didn't lie to priests were routinely executed!

The reason they ask for proof of baptism is because, theoretically, Catholic children will participate in religious school life and the community. If you stop the moment you get a school place, you are indeed cheating.

The reason they ask for proof of baptism is because, theoretically, Catholic children will participate in religious school life and the community. If you stop the moment you get a school place, you are indeed cheating.

No, that is only in you mind. Schools aren't allowed to select students based on their commitment to take part in activities.

@ScrabbleOriginal

The reason they ask for proof of baptism is because, theoretically, Catholic children will participate in religious school life and the community. If you stop the moment you get a school place, you are indeed cheating.

No, that is only in you mind. Schools aren't allowed to select students based on their commitment to take part in activities.

Yes they are. Certain Choir schools demand choir attendance and music club participation, for example.

Certain Choir schools demand choir attendance and music club participation, for example.

That would breach the national admissions code. Many schools who used to have those sorts of policies have been ordered to change them by the schools adjudicator, so if you know of any that still do, post the links.

[quote ScrabbleOriginal]@Bucolicky I have looked outside my own home town. Have you? In fact have you even looked within your own home town? It's not hard. Just look at a website for a random non-faith school, navigate to the policies page and look for the collective worship policy.

Our school does have one filed away ready to brush off if it's ever needed, but we don't follow it and it certainly isn't on the website.[/quote]
I'm going to answer your questions in the hope that they were asked genuinely, rather than in a defensive and sarcastic manner, @ScrabbleOriginal.

I have a DC (I have a few; I'm Catholic!) at a non-faith high school (Don't ask - long story). It's diff from the other siblings' schools in that there are no statues and crucifixes around the school, and RE lessons are called RS lesson, and are not compulsory for GCSE. But they do have regular worship (and a policy on their website) that is broadly christian. It's a non-denominational school with a wide range of different faith/no faith pupils.

If the school at which you are a governor doesn't pay due regard to the statutory requirement for collective worship, fair enough. You're qualified to talk about that specific breach. But unless you're a governor at all schools in the country, I believe you have no clue what's happening on a day-to-day basis in schools where I live, or in Portsmouth or Stow-on-the-Wold or Birmingham or Leeds or Whitehaven or Berwick-upon-Tweed. How could you possibly know?

I'd like to gently point out that we can disagree amicably though. I don't really like being told that i'm ignoring what you've written, just because I don't change my views to match yours, and I've noticed that you've called other posters who disagree with you entitled and blinkered, and accused others who disagree of saying 'silly' things. There's no need for that now, is there?

But unless you're a governor at all schools in the country

Governors don't just sit in a box at their own schools, they network with other governors, both locally and nationally, in person and via social media ... they have Facebook groups, networking meetings, etc. They're also very close to school leaders, who network with other school leaders, and have also usually worked in other schools over the course of their career. School leaders are often Ofsted inspectors themselves so they visit many other schools and see how things are done far and wide. They communicate this to governors. So our perspective is actually much wider than you imply and, trust me, our school would not be ignoring the statutory requirement if it wasn't common practice in very many other schools.

Eek @ScrabbleOriginal. I'm not a governor, but my DH stepped down recently after years as one, incl being Deputy Chair for a while. His experience is certainly different from yours. He had no clue what was happening in schools at the other end of the country! Must be different in London.

Happy to oblige.

DH is catholic (I'm Anglican) and our children are baptised catholic, but religion is not part of our daily lives and if pushed, we both feel pretty negative about the church.

Why did you get them baptised? WS it just a nice party?

I haven’t RTFT, but I’ve worked in a Catholic school for years. I think they vary a lot. The school I work in is very Catholic. Crosses in all rooms, big picture of the Pope, signs relating to Catholicism everywhere, daily form worship, sign of the cross at the start of every lesson before children sit down, regular mass (sometimes year groups, sometimes whole school). Staff do prayers before meetings, full time chaplain. I’m even doing a Teams meeting once a week at the moment to do form worship. It’s a lovely school, but you know it’s Catholic as soon as you set foot in there. It gets the best results in the area though so loads of people get their children baptised to get in. These children are expected to take part in the full Catholic life of the school.

@KateBlush I haven't got time to read the whole thread, but you might want to read this and reflect on whether this is what you really want your daughter to learn at school. Granted it comes from a local rag, but there's no smoke without fire. Either you send your daughter to RC school to be indoctrinated with this sort of damaging misogynist crap unchallenged, or you have to put in the hours talking to her, explaining that what school is saying is just one (frankly dodgy) viewpoint and generally undermining her trust in teachers who may otherwise be doing a good job. I think we owe our daughters more in 2021, don't we? www.herefordtimes.com/news/19127637.serious-concerns-sex-education-resource-herefordshire-school/?fbclid=IwAR0zdy90KWblDpiZVujSW5rrGDBkZEcd7IAmgiHoSciWJE8E7-E-XQ1zA4Y

@Biscuitsneeded happily the OP found out on Monday that her daughter got a higher preference (non-faith) school. The rest of us have continued the conversation in her absence.

Yes, that story you linked to was worrying, but these things are less likely to come to light if the schools are only populated by the most devout families. If the OP's daughter had attended that school, she could call this sort of thing out, to the benefit of other students.

Hi @Biscuitsneeded. This thread has rather exploded 😯. I updated further up the posts that thankfully (and unexpectedly) we were allocated an entirely different non-faith school.

@KateBlush Thank you for updating - that is good news! I hope you're happy with the allocation your DD has received.
@ScrabbleOriginal Thank you also for updating. I take your point that if only the truly devout attend these schools these sorts of wrongs can be perpetuated, unexposed, but it seems harsh to expect any 11 year old to go and be a sacrificial lamb for the sake of maybe having the courage to confront the indoctrination in front of all their classmates and teacher. Would have to be quite a kid! A better outcome would be if the country stopped funding faith schools as they are divisive and do more harm than good.

Lots of reasons: tradition/ family expectations/ we wanted to bring them up in the Christian faith. There are degrees of belief.