Missed out on entry to grammar & independent secondaries in London

[cantstopstressing]

Posting slightly in desperation. DS is 10 and we are mid way through applying to a number of grammar and independent schools in North London for admission next year. DS is bright (top set in both Maths & English) at an outstanding state primary and hardworking. We tutored for 18 months in advance of the exams. He did 2 grammar schools in North London and didn't get into top 650 (Latymer) or top 350 for the other one. He has done a couple of independents but we are not hopeful as one was a CEM select test and the timing was extremely aggressive and the other (also a super selective school with 800+ applicants for 75 places) was also very tough and he didn't write much in the creative writing section of the English paper so I am not hopeful that he will get offers from those either.

I guess I am wondering where we (or I) went wrong. Maybe I misjudged how academic he is plus I think, on reflection, doing 2 hours a week with a tutor and past papers up until the last few months where he was doing 5-6 hours per week, simply wasn't enough. I am aware there are kids doing a couple of hours each day. I feel like I have let him down as I don't believe he will get any offers from the schools we applied to and will face a number of rejections which will knock his confidence. As I said, he is top of his class and, although I know there is a huge gap between being good at a state primary and what independent schools will teach, I guess I am still surprised and disappointed that none of these schools are an option for him. Why is it a clever boy can't get a place at decent indie in London?

I think it depends which independent.

There are loads of good independents that may well take late places. Colfes is an example.

I know of people in my area who went all out and bought extra tutoring during the lockdown. Someone I met had a teacher come to her house Monday to Friday.

I have a friend whose children had 3 tutors.

My son scraped through from being at a poorly performing state school and we only tutored for a few months.

I consider ourselves lucky.

I am led to believe that many more children do way more that they let on. Some of it I think is extremely cruel.

In addition I think it depends upon the tutor. Does the Tutor get excellent marks?

Was your child doing well at mock tests?

Monochrome, which school did your DS get into? The schools I am talking about are Latymer, Dame Alice Owen, Highgate and City of London Boys. We only did online mock and he was scoring 75-80%

What is your plan for next year? Is there a good state secondary for him?

Would you consider two years at up to year 8 prep and try for 13+ entry at some places? You would have to consider this quickly as many places have deadlines for year 7 pre-tests close in January of year 6 (for year 9 entry).

I have a cousin whose kid missed out at year 7, he sent his son weekly boarding out of London for year 7/8 and got him into a good school at year 9 but mind you this was ~10 years ago.

There are so many children applying for places that even very bright children can miss out - just luck of the draw. Or he may have just not tested well despite what he can do in a classroom. Alternatively he could have been a big fish in a small pond at his school - he may have been top of his class, but top of one class is middle of the pack in another.

So all I am saying is it should t take so much time and so much money but in my experience loads of private prep school kids sit the state grammars abs go for the Independents.

Your child may be top of the class at one school but the cohort may not be the same as a competitive London school where parents spend heaps of time outside school on education and extra school work.

You need to also really consider where your child will get in - 75 places for 800 applicants is a school I would pass on.

Thanks Mono. Even the less popular schools seem to have a similar ratio of applicants to place. Why are there so few places at these schools? We do not have a decent state secondary as an option. We were going to move house, as many others do. I wish we had! I think he is bright but may not perform as well as he can in exams, or not well enough to be in the top 10-15%. He is in a large state primary (6 forms) and in top set for both English and maths so not a case of being a big fish in a small pond.

I have a state grammar option.

However my child in the end was getting full marks on mocks but under exam conditions it was different. He was getting full marks on st olaves type mocks but did not get through To the second round.

Even though he felt everything went well.
It did though for him.

There is no way we would try city (I found the online video by the students really off-putting).

I know you say your child comes from a state primary with 6 classes but I really think the difference between some schools is notable.

Did you sit in any grammar areas like Bexley or Kent ? That would have been your best bet if you were going to move?

Are you sure the state secondaries are not great?

Would you consider moving him to a prep?

And don't be disappointed for your child having a childhood. In some ways 11 plus tests a narrow range of abilities and is all about answering a question fast and in a hurry.

Maybe look at wider range? Don’t know how we have done so far but the state grammars are insanely competitive and the two indies are also right at the top of the most selective. So Your Ds may be very bright but with these schools would still be massive element of luck on whether he got in. If you are keen on independent look at a wider range of schools including the non-selective. Given the madness which is London schools eg northbridge house, harrodian etc will still have lots of very bright kids and would be top schools in most other cities . And your ds is clearly Hard working and bright and he will be fine in most schools . I would be worried that a child who was being tutored every night would not be happy when they got into the school...

No, only the two grammars near us. Out of 15 in DS's school who applied, 3 got in.

Hi August, no I wouldn't consider moving him just for 2 years and wouldn't consider boarding.

So are you still looking at moving (out of London?) or will you send him to the local state school?

Unfortunately there are just so many children who want 11+ places and not many to go around.

It really is a tough and often unfair system.

But don't give up looking, widen your options by considering a range of school.

Try Aldenham, St John’s, Mount House - I think thy might still allow you to apply late as they are very easygoing schools and the assessments are in January

Hi OP.
It’s insanely competitive but in my view I don’t think you should have done more than what’s you’ve done. It’s a fine balance between prepping them and letting them have a childhood. I know a family who has been prepping their kids since they were about 6 for the exam! Poor kid.
We were private and didn’t need that much prep but I wasn’t 100% happy as they taught specifically for it.
I would seriously consider the 13+ and getting into an prep and then moving.

Unfortunately you applied to schools with some of the toughest applicant per seat ratios and the competition is just extremely high. You can try applying to schools that are still nice but less competitive at entry (like Aldenham). If you call up they are still likely to allow late applications

Have a look at some of the good indies which are a short train commute from London- John Lyon in Harrow on the Hill, St Albans, St Columbas , etc. All have a good rep.

Just because he's in a large school it doesn't necessarily mean it's a good school.

I honestly think it sounds horribly stressful for a young boy - 5-6 hours per week is loads on top of a full week in school.

I got into grammar school & I think 10 from my primary got places (90 per year) however we had no extra tuition & no idea really we were sitting 11+. The girls who came from the two private schools in the town on the whole performed worse than others as they weren't necessarily naturally bright rather they had been prepped/coached on how to pass.

I would consider moving - there's some great comprehensive schools around. I'm sure central London has great comps. They get extra funding than schools outside London.

Thanks all. He is due to sit Aldenham next month but the results are not fantastic so would be in two minds if he did get offered, plus it's an hour commute for us.

Thanks Username, that makes me feel better. I think we did as much as we reasonably could given his sporty, fun nature. He is not a nerd and loves all sports. He was happy to do work but not hours and hours a day which I know some kids do. I just hate the way it has to be so hard. Why are there so few decent schools??

I'm going to be brutally honest here.

Firstly, you seem to only have picked highly competitive schools. Did you not have a backup with a "safe" option?

Secondly, IME, and we did this last year, being top set in primary school means very little for this. You don't know how good the cohort is in relation to other schools'. If you want to be in it with a fair chance, you really should be top of the top set as a starter. Even if it is a big school.

The amount of preparations is more than enough. If anything, it seems way too much. DC had a tutor in Yr 5, 1 hour a week and DC had to manage the work without us nagging. The goal cannot only be to get in but to manage the school as well.

Of those schools mentioned, we did one of the grammar and one of the indies. DC got in at both in the first round. DC is a smart cookie but not exceptional.

Applying to those schools, you'll have good secondary schools around you. We entered the 11+ knowing that we would be happy with our local one if it had turned out that DC didn't receive any offers. Did you apply for a state school place? Is that not an option at all?

Things were really tough this year. My son sat Latymer and didn't get in the top 650 either. I think this is a mixture of things, one of which is the crazy parents who practically abuse their kids were able to go all out this year. I know some kids who were doing 11+ prep from 9-5 daily from March to June.
In all honesty my son is really clever and we decided to only do some mocks the week before. If he was going to get in great, if not, I wasn't going to ruin a summer for him. He does well at school, is in top sets and I know he will do well anywhere as long as he puts his mind to it. There is always movement in Latymer, especially in Y7 so I wouldn't discount it as an in year applicant further down the line. Kids end up at these school and hate the pace and leave. Not a lot, but there are always a few each year. I think in your position I would stop stressing out about it and accept wherever there is place. Your son sounds really clever and will likely do well, especially with a supportive family.

foxesandsquirells I know a family that kept their child off school until after the 11 plus and crammed and crammed their poor child with 11 plus drills plus other stuff to try secure a scholarship.

I kept thinking the school will look into it.

They didn't.

The child went back to school the other week once all the exams were over.

waitingforsunshine I agree with your post. It does depend upon the primary as well as the child.

My child for next to nothing in school lockdown (I wasn't bothered) but when it came to 11 plus I realised there was so much that wasn't covered. I could kind of manage during the lockdown but it made it clear to me that the primary school was way behind what other schools covered. It is a kind and friendly school though and we didn't have too many 11 plus crazy parents.

Waiting, we do have a back-up but it is just that. It's a lot of money to spend on a back-up. Our state options are not great. We applied, of course, and he could go there but it's not a particularly good school and I make no apologies for wanting better for him.

Can I ask where in London you are and how long ago your DC applies? I would say your child is more definitely exceptional if they got into Latymer and either Highgate or City with only 1 hour prep a week. I have a friend with a kid in similar position who keeps saying how easy it is to get into these schools - it really isn't!

DS's son is a high achieving state primary. His tutor has got kids into these schools and thinks he is more than capable.