DH and I don't agree on secondary school

[WillowSummerSloth]

Our eldest son is in year 5 and we have been considering secondary schools. However we have different preferences and we're not sure how to resolve it. There's no arguing, just a difference of opinion.
I prefer the private school- the curriculum is broad, the sports offered are amazing, the behaviours is great. But there's the huge financial burden as we have 3 kids and we'd definitely have to make cut backs or work more.
DH feels the local secondary school is good enough. They're strict with behaviour although there are still incidents of fighting and the lessons we observed felt like there was low level disruption in some classes. However DH thinks we can supplement their education with tutoring and after school activities.
For context we earm £170k and have £110k in savings specifically for education (gifted by parents for school fees)
Please can anyone advise?? There's no right or wrong I know but I'm chewing this over constantly. I feel the private school would definitely give a better experience but it comes at a cost. Also DH worked so hard for so long and really isn't keen to take on more work. I could work more as currently only do 3.5 days but I also do all the life and child admin which is hefty!

Difficult decision , we have put three through independent albeit that the middle one went to an independent special school . The aim was never better exam results but a broader more fulfilling education . I always wanted the exam results to a by product and not s purpose if the education . We also wanted excellent pastoral care and a smaller school ( still 1000 so not tiny) where they knew all the teachers and the teachers knew them . I think schools have become too big children are just a crowd a rabble and I do think this is contributing to the mental health crisis in our young people . In other countries they have huge secondaries/ high schools but they have much better resources with school counsellors and such like .

My youngest in particular is very academic and would probably have got just as good results at the outstanding state school but his contemporary there have been made to take hundreds of exams ( 12 GCSEs and compulsory 4 A levels ) to get their league table results . ds has stuck with fewer exams and done sport, drama music and has more time for each subject where they can go off lists etc .

So I would say don’t just look at exam results look at the ethos and pastoral care that suits your child . That may be state or independent .

That should say off piste not off lists ,

GrandMoff Those are all fair comments and as someone with a child at an outstanding comp I don't think she's disadvantaged against those at privates so I wouldn't expect her to get more favourable offers. And certainly kids at state grammars shouldn't be getting contextualised offers.

But I'm often struck on these threads that people tell us how much better their kids' private school was than the state they would have gone to but then seem to find it terribly unfair that universities, and indeed some employers, might try and compensate for this. It just seems inconsistent to me.

Our private school sold us a bogie, it looked perfect for ds1, we were so impressed by what we saw but it failed our son. He had to leave due to bullying after 3 years and it has had a very negative impact on his further schooling. Or ds2. Goes to the local comp, on the face of it terrible catchment, failing school but he is thriving. And is set to achieve top grades.
So don't always believe the hype, pick the school which will be best for your child, speak to staff, other parents and senior pupils.

If you have three sons, do look at schools which are co-ed. Speaking as a teacher, there is a huge emphasis at university level on widening intake. It is generally easier to get offered places at Russell Group/Oxbridge/Medical School from state schools. You will also have the money to invest in private tutors which can be hugely beneficial.

I think you could afford private on your income, Willow, but you must understand that bad behaviour, fighting, disruption etc, all happen in private schools too. My son went to a very good one and there were lots of shenanigans :-). I will say that private schools come down hard on pupils who really behave badly, even expelling if it's that bad.

Have a good look at the secondary school your husband favours, there are some great ones. We have grammar schools nearby that are good. However I do feel your son should have a say, children have good instincts about schools so please go to open days with him.

We went this morning and I was again bowled over by the things on offer, the potential, the ethos. DH remains unmoved
He still feels that all we are witnessing are the facilities that can be purchased (and opportunities that we will try to replicate with private lessons/ tutors)
DS 2 and 3 thought it was great and have both decided they are going. DS1 is non plussed in his relaxed manner. He thought it was great but also said that he'd be happy at the other school. He is fairly easy going and doesn't have a strong opinion either way!
We will keep it under discussion I think.

You need to treat your children fairly, and be able demonstrate them as adults that you did this.

However, fairly does not mean the same as equally.

So for each one, choose the school, out of those that are realistic financially and geographically, where you believe they will be happiest and will achieve the most, and be prepared to change this if this changes.

This may end up being the same school for all of your children, different for all or a combination in-between. You might narrow this by saying they will all go private or state, or you might not.

If your younger children end up needing a different type of education, (E.g. to pursue a talent or to support an as-yet unknown needs), you would not necessarily be giving them the best for them at the time they go to secondary if you insist on them having what is currently best for your eldest.

There are other threads running where a new headteacher has completely changed a school's ethos, so you could be doing your younger children a huge disservice by making decisions for them now as schools can change significantly in a relatively short period of time.

Is it going to be you or DH running around and sorting out all these out of school tutoring opportunities if they go to state school etc?

Is it going to be you or DH running around and sorting out all these out of school tutoring opportunities if they go to state school etc?

The OP is considering working 5 days a week rather than 3.5 days to afford private school fees. These things take rather less than 1.5 days a week (and if her DC go to the local school extra-curricular may not take any extra running round at all, as they can simply make their own arrangements).

Seems like you seem to enjoy bragging about money and holidays a bit too much.

Not sure that’s particularly fair. She’s stated their annual income and that they like to take holidays. What they choose to do with their income is surely their own business seeing as they’ve worked for it?

Neither is necessary to be stated.she could have just said she has the means for either education. certainly her numbering her holidays per year is irrelevant.

She’s only stated their salary on affordability grounds & she has hardly made a big deal about their holidays. Quite honestly, this all does rather say more about you than the OP. You have read this as boasty but I’m pretty sure the rest of us haven’t.

Thsts my point. If she knew which I'm sure she does that she can afford it,why state figures.?? Why mention 3 holidays a year? It bears no relevance to anything. I was raised not to flaunt what I have as there are those with less,it seems like she has not been taught this.

Back on the subject of schools...

@WillowSummerSloth It looks like your kids (two of them at least) and you have already been won over by the private school route, but maybe if your eldest doesn't have a particular preference one way or another - you shoukd start him off in a state school with the option to change to private any time depending on how it goes?

Although my parents (who have gone the private school route for my brother and state school route for me) have said that the only money they never regretted spending was on education. But there are big differences between private schools... My brother's school was in Germany and the kids there were quite special. He is still close friends with many if his classmates and they have all gone on to have phomenal careers (his best friend from school is an engineer in Hamilton's team for example and my brother is currently doing his Phd and teaching at Harvard having graduated from Cambridge). In this case, I can see private education really being worth it.

However, in my daughter's case of a private North London prep - I really don't see anything specially about it except huge pressure on young kids.

It all depends on the school.

I'm sorry if you interpreted it as bragging. That wasn't my intention at all. Partly this thread was about affordability and, as you'll see, there have been differences in opinion regarding whether we can afford it. The holidays thing was only mentioned as context to current lifestyle and where the sacrifices may lie.
There are some interesting points made here and I am taking them all on board. Lots of things have been raised that we hadn't considered including starting in state and switching etc. In regards to the younger 2, the littlest is only 5 so it's by mo means a dead cert where he'll go just yet.
This thread has made me examine our choices in different ways so thankyou so much for that.

Your youngest 2 are far too young for their opinions to be taken into consideration. They would be unable to see beyond shiny facilities and things that looked "fun". I really would just focus on your oldest and what suits him, and not worry about your other two - actually I'll caveat that; if you pick a school that will mean your other 2 have to go there because of logistics, you need to balance that out carefully.

Look at the final destinations of the students from both the state and the private schools you are considering. Factor in the fact that the private schools will be selective, then decide. Some private schools are not as successful as you might expect and some state schools get brilliant results.
I was privately educated myself but spent my working life teaching in a state school. Many of my 6th formers got into Russell Group universities.

If you have a good state school near you, save your money, ensure you top up any lackings in the state school with tutors and ensure you have the money to help them all get through uni. If the local state schools are rubbish, spend your money on private education, but you don't need to stick with the local ones, One's where they may need to board may well be better. My four-pennorth.

Willow, I haven't seen you brag - you've just stated facts.

Nothing to add except I 'like' what StanleySteamer says above.

Hope all goes well whatever you decide.

My husband and I also disagreed about schools. In the end, this just gave our son the casting vote. He chose a grammar with a great swimming pool. He's Y11 now and still bright & lazy. No school's going to change that.

Sounds like it would be a strain to put all 3 in private from 11... maybe if state wasn’t working out at 13, you could consider switching, or 6th form. Or save the money for uni/post-grad.

But I would be careful about the bright ds who had a tendency to be lazy. It might be easier to coast at some state schools as the class sizes are bigger, and also might get sucked into the low level disruption. On the other hand hyper competitive private/grammar schools can also be damaging for anxious, perfectionist kids.

the problem is that you will only know whether your choices were good in about twenty years time! You just have to go with your gut on a child by child basis.

If you've got £110k and annual fees are £12k then even if both the older two kids go, it'll be at least 5 years before you have to dip into your won pockets to pay fees? And as DS1 is only in year 5, you'd have 7 years to get some specific savings going. Alternatively you remortgage in 7 years time to extend the term.

Personally I'd always go for the great school rather than the ok school. Has your dh been to all the open days at the state option? How are the results at GCSE and A level? Are they comparable to the school he went to and loved?

If you're really stuck, then is there a better state option you could both agree on? You still have time to relocate?

As well as looking at what the schools themselves, offer, look at what's available in your local community. Also think about time spent commuting, etc. The right answer probably depends a lot on your area.

DD is in a good state comprehensive, her cousins in private. Their school offers vastly more in the way of musical and other opportunities - everything is there within the school. On the other hand, DD is home by 3.30, belongs to two local musical groups (one of which is a type rarely available in schools), learns two instruments and an extra language out of school. In some ways she has a wider choice of opportunities (but this might be different in a more rural area, of course), but we have to do a bit more to facilitate that.

I was also amused by someone's comment on their kids versus the neighbours' kids. Both sets came out of primary with similar results, one family went private, the other to the comp. They finished with similar exam results, but the private school family had done a lot more homework on the way!