DH and I don't agree on secondary school

[WillowSummerSloth]

Our eldest son is in year 5 and we have been considering secondary schools. However we have different preferences and we're not sure how to resolve it. There's no arguing, just a difference of opinion.
I prefer the private school- the curriculum is broad, the sports offered are amazing, the behaviours is great. But there's the huge financial burden as we have 3 kids and we'd definitely have to make cut backs or work more.
DH feels the local secondary school is good enough. They're strict with behaviour although there are still incidents of fighting and the lessons we observed felt like there was low level disruption in some classes. However DH thinks we can supplement their education with tutoring and after school activities.
For context we earm £170k and have £110k in savings specifically for education (gifted by parents for school fees)
Please can anyone advise?? There's no right or wrong I know but I'm chewing this over constantly. I feel the private school would definitely give a better experience but it comes at a cost. Also DH worked so hard for so long and really isn't keen to take on more work. I could work more as currently only do 3.5 days but I also do all the life and child admin which is hefty!

We don't earn what you do, but have one less child. We are sticking with state schooling. Save The money for uni.

That is a huge salary, definitely private school

As other ms have said, save the cash for university. Your kids will be really grateful.

But taking 3 kids to different schools is a logistical nightmare

i'd suggest focusing on schools they can get to independently. Not being able to and having to work for a working parent to pick them up is a PITA (and if you have multiple children at a school that have to wait for a lift and one does an after school club, all the others have to wait too).

Find a grammar school witha sibling policy

Moving house an be pretty pricey, as well, in the event that the OP doesn't currently live within sensible travelling distance of a grammar school.

Dame Alice Owen's, to quote your example, is a partially selective comprehensive school, where siblings get in just by being siblings of current pupils. Even where a grammar school has a sibling policy, said sibling(s) still have to do well enough in the 11+ to get a place.

My two will go to separate schools (Dd is off to an all girls school and clearly DS won’t be) but they can get there independently

Look round the schools and get a sense of what your DS wants and can easily get to

To all those people saying that the OP wouldn’t have any financial concerns, that’s not quite true. School fees for 3 children is at least £60,000 per year - which is a lot. I would say you would need to allow at least another £5,000 per year for school trips, uniform, etc.

We looked at private options for dd, but eventually decided to send her to the local comprehensive as the private options simply didn't seem worth the investment. The buildings were nicer, to be sure, and they had a couple of extra language options on top of the bog standard French/Spanish offer at dd's school, but I didn't think that the overall quality of education on offer was any better.

A few years on, dd is in year 10 and I couldn't be happier with our decision. She is doing brilliantly academically and at the same time, she is learning how to relate effectively to people from a whole range of different backgrounds. I have seen her perspective change as her understanding grows, and I'm really proud of how she is developing and how much more open-minded she has become. She still sees her friends who went to the selective private school, and it's evident that she isn't missing out on anything.

We also have the funds to pay for extra-curricular activities outside school as well as those which she does in school, and I see it as a real positive to do this stuff outside of school because it gives her a whole other group of friends.

Her friends at the private school are lovely girls and they're doing well academically but I've seen that their world is very limited in comparison to dd's. I'm so glad that we didn't choose that for her. It wouldn't have been the right choice at all.

Off topic but I'm always slightly puzzled about why people whose kids are in private school object to universities making contextual offers.

I mean presumably you think your kids are doing better in private than they would in state otherwise you wouldn't be spending the money right? But you don't like universities making that assumption?

I'm not making any judgement here on whether private is actually better than state. But if you believe they are it's odd to expect universities to operate on the opposite assumption.

@WillowSummerSloth DS is really bright but slightly lazy. He seems to be able to do things without too much challenge but only ever does the bare minimum

I would say that's a dangerous combination of attributes to go to a mixed ability school with. obviously a comprehensive school needs to cater for all abilities so there will always be opportunities for a bright child to slack off. The best environment is therefore one where the minimum expected standard is high, so a selective school.

I disagree that you need to choose a school to suit all three - my two siblings and I all went to different senior schools - we all took the entrance exams for the 3 local private options and the eldest got into the most fiercely academic, the second didn't get a place there but got a place at the one that was still pretty academic and still pretty high up in the league tables, and the third didn't get a place at either and was sent to the more "nurturung"/"not an exams factory" school that doesn't put as much emphasis on A grades. there were very occasional clashes with things like parents evenings and school plays on the same night at different schools but thay was rare. Apart from this I think we're all benefited from being separate from our siblings at school and could develop without being compared to one another constantly.

in an ideal world the kind of education your DH is advocating for is great. it should be the case that all children have access to excellent education and have friends across the social spectrum.

the reality is that state education is chronically and catastrophically underfunded. the system lets down huge numbers of children. even at the best comps, the pressure on teachers is so high that the vacancy rate is astonishing. subjects are frequently taught by someone without specialist knowledge in that field, and children have large chunks of time with only a supply teacher on crowd-control, not learning anything. class sizes are so large that it is too easy for situations to be unnoticed (eg the bright but lazy child slacking off)

of course this is unacceptable. we should all be using our votes and influence to change this, demand higher taxes and investment in decent state education. but in the meantime it is not wrong to opt out of this failing system if you can afford to - which your family clearly can. maybe by the time your youngest is in Y6 we will be living in a socialist utopia where the local comp has the funds it needs to offer an excellent education to all, let's hope. but this is not the reality for your eldest at least.

missed out this image - not intentional but while composing the above I flipped over to the guardian and this was today's selection of headlines giving a picture of the state of state education.

What has your private school education actually done for you? How well did you do at university? Post-grad?

We've decided to look at more schools. A PP mentioned this and I think it's a good idea as we'd become pretty focused on school A vs school B.
DH and I have both done well. We both spent the best part of a decade at university and we do the same job although in different fields.
We're actually heading off to an open morning today to take DS to look round.
I've found this thread super helpful and appreciate everyone taking time to give their opinion.

But your DH was not privately educated? So was your private education actually worth it?

I think it is interesting the decision is between you and DH and DS has no say

We were very torn, good stare school or good private school... We had a good income at the time.

DS1 had a really strong preference for one of the state schools. I thought it came across as a bit noisy and not formal/scruffy uniform.

But that school was also famous for pastoral care.

God, I thought so hard! The private school was very nurturing, and the other state school had outstanding of Ted and a grammar feel, very impressive.

But DS wanted his scruffy friendly comp, which, to be fair had same gcse results as the other two schools.

He thrived there. DH lost his job and had a breakdown do thank goodness we did not have the burden of fees.

dS2 went to the other comp, which he preferred.

I found I really needed to see my child in the different schools and imagine them there. I did not mind having them at different schools.

One question: what is the progress 8 score for the schools? That is the one figure to look at

I went to a state comprehensive school and later, at University, met many people on my course, some of whom who became very good friends, who went to the top private schools. I am talking Roedean, Rugby, Charterhouse, Marlborough etc. Just saying.

Can he go state until A level the private for A level?

At £12k per yer I would choose private. Keep the lump sum for the years all 3 of them are there.

Could you downsize your house? Also I would increase your hours, if not now in a few years time.

You need to seriously budget. What exactly do you spend your money on now £ by £ and where could you save money. Spend a huge amount on food and drink? Reduce that, look at less expensive holidays, less on gifts and so on.

You have enough wiggle room to not take a massive hit on lifestyle and still afford it. Start now to save up £14k in a year, how can you do it? You have nearly 2 years to save up a minimum of 2 years fees and see the reality of living on a reduced income.

TheHumans If DH and I are trying to decide whether an option for something is even viable, we don't include the DC in that discussion. They are only included as and when the option is ruled in as possible.

So it isn't surprising to me that the DS hasn't been involved up to now, as they haven't worked out whether they as the adults are happy paying 3 lots of school fees.

I would go state and move at 13 if it's not working out.

@WillowSummerSloth I think that’s the best idea! Like you, we’d got fixed completely into 2 camps, me on getting DD into Grammar and DH on the local Comp literally down the road (as he did and thrived despite living in a decidedly rough area - I wasn’t at all keen having heard numerous stories of bullying). We’re both graduates and like your situation, of the two of us career wise he has done better! We’re all really happy with how the compromise solution has worked out, DD seems to be making friends, has joined numerous clubs, is in the top sets and appears to be being pushed. It has involved a long commute for her (50 minutes each way on a direct bus) - going back to basics meant widening the scope which did unfortunately mean for us a bigger geographical area. I would agree with the PP who has said as you both work and have 3 DC, keep it to the schools that DS can reach by himself unless you want all 3 to go there. It is a faff going through lots of data stats, admissions policies and scholarship particulars but you’ve got a year and time.

Bright but slightly lazy - don’t bother to spend a fortune on private fees. He’ll coast and they’ll be happy to get good enough grades. If he’s somewhere else he’ll probably get the same grades or be inspired to try harder as he might be recognised as bright and benefit from that. I have 3 children, brightest is the laziest and got the worst grades at GCSE & A Level.

HPFA Re contextualised offers, I think there are two issues. The first is that parents don't necessarily pay for private schools to achieve better results, they're often paying for other stuff - so they might not think a potential 'handicap' on required grades is fair. Of course you could argue that the other 'stuff' is just as important at boosting chances of getting into uni, so a handicap is still fair. Secondly, it depends how nuanced the contextualisation is. In our case, we chose an independent (on a bursary) over a SS grammar. If DS were 'handicapped' vs a child on free school meals who went to an underperforming comp in a deprived area, I would have zero problem with that. However, if he was 'handicapped' vs a child who went to prep school and was intensively tutored in order to get a place at the SS grammar where a large percentage come from private primaries, then yes I would be peeved. I don't think that's how contextualisation works, but a lot of parents think it is.

@GrandMoff You are exactly right. On another thread on here there was a list of schools Bristol offer contextual offers to and it was crazy. Comps in really deprived areas are not on that list, but schools like Fortisemere and Camden Girls are! Or schools like Dame Alice Owen get get contextual offers. That's not making it a fair playing field for the poor exceptional kid in a struggling school

Frida there can never be 'proof' of whether private school is worth it, partly because what you might be getting out of it is quite nebulous, and partly because you can never know how your child would have done at another school. In our case, as I've just said, we were lucky enough to have the choice between two very academic schools. I have no doubt that DS would do as well academically at the grammar, and might well end up in the same university course and job. So what do we think we get out of the independent? Various things, some more tangible than others. First, an education that is academic, and co-ed, and non-faith (round here in the state schools you can easily get one of the three, sometimes two but certainly not all three). Secondly, a freedom from targets and curriculum constraints. The school is free (at least in the first couple of years before public exams) to teach the children what it thinks they ought to learn. Not a whisper about GCSE targets and flightpaths and assessment. The curriculum is creative, and varied, and challenging, and DS comes home every day genuinely inspired by what he's learning. Thirdly, the quality of the teaching and the quality of the relationship with the teaching staff. There is low staff turnover, the teachers have the resources and the time to do their jobs properly, everything is taught by subject specialists (including the vast majority of cover lessons) and the small class sizes mean they build up not only close but also relaxed relationships with their students (because they have a relatively small number of kids to get to know and because behaviour problems are practically non-existent). Fourthly, the incredible range of extra curricular activities coupled with the flexibility of the school day (they can potentially be on campus 7am-8pm if they need to) means that DS can get involved in whatever he likes, and the fact that we both work and cannot transport him around the place after school does not impact on that.

None of that is really measurable. All I know is that he is very, very happy. Perhaps he would have been equally happy at another school - I cannot know that.