DH and I don't agree on secondary school

[WillowSummerSloth]

Our eldest son is in year 5 and we have been considering secondary schools. However we have different preferences and we're not sure how to resolve it. There's no arguing, just a difference of opinion.
I prefer the private school- the curriculum is broad, the sports offered are amazing, the behaviours is great. But there's the huge financial burden as we have 3 kids and we'd definitely have to make cut backs or work more.
DH feels the local secondary school is good enough. They're strict with behaviour although there are still incidents of fighting and the lessons we observed felt like there was low level disruption in some classes. However DH thinks we can supplement their education with tutoring and after school activities.
For context we earm £170k and have £110k in savings specifically for education (gifted by parents for school fees)
Please can anyone advise?? There's no right or wrong I know but I'm chewing this over constantly. I feel the private school would definitely give a better experience but it comes at a cost. Also DH worked so hard for so long and really isn't keen to take on more work. I could work more as currently only do 3.5 days but I also do all the life and child admin which is hefty!

The private school definitely offers a better curriculum and extra curricular.

This would put me off because it's extra curricular with other children in the same 'bubble'. I'd rather pay out for clubs and sports.

I think the ultimate is which school is better for your child, and aldo which the child wants to go to.

The amount of money spent on fees can go towards some fantastic experiences and tutoring if needed.

Lastly, how much burdon would you be putting on your children if they felt you were depriving yourselves to send them to a private school?

How would you react if they decide they are not interested or not bothered?

I have had 3 DCs in private (one finished) and I think that unless your state options are dire then I would stay state. Firstly, I find that parents who make scarifices to send DCs to private have expectations and that becomes pressure. Secondly, as a parent with older DCs I would also say that some parents who move to Indys at 11+ are a bit shocked in 6th form years to see the same children they thought that they had left behind in primary looking at the same courses at the same universities as they are and they do start to wonder what all the sacrifice was about. This is particularly relevant at the moment as there is a definite state school bias in many unis and the state school DCs may recieve lower offers. Moving for 6th form is IMO not worthwhile as I believe that school fees become less value for money as DCs grow older.
You have 3 DCs to put through uni, it will cost a lot. Tuition fees are only part of the cost and as I expect your DCs would only qualify for minimal loans you will have to fund living expenses yourselves. DS1's first year cost over £20k which isn't much less than his school fees were!

I am similar to you, and dh has similar views to your dh. He feels that he mixed with the full range of society and that is A Good Thing.

Only thing is his school years 7-10 were pretty miserable. Didn't have many if any friends in school, and was treated badly for working.
In year 11 and the 6th form he made friends. Who were white middle class very similar to him. He never really mixed with the "full range of society" and has never kept up with any of them other than the ones who were similar to him.
Whereas I went to a small private school with a lot of assisted places.
The people I have kept up with from school are of far greater range of backgrounds than his friends.

So although he had the potential for mixing more he didn't really.

And don't dismiss the issue of low-level disruption. All my children (including ds who doesn't work unless he's forced!) have been frustrated at being in lessons where so much time is spent on that.

Do your private schools have a big intake at 13 (typical for the more public school type)? if so start in state and swap then if it isn't working out? Also, does the state school have a mixed (or wealthy) intake, or will skiing etc make him stand out as privileged?

Only thing is his school years 7-10 were pretty miserable. Didn't have many if any friends in school, and was treated badly for working.

That was my experience at private school (i.e. it wasn't a state school issue). I'm not sure historical experiences are of value anyway - schools have changed a huge amount (generally for the better) since I was at school due to improvements in education as a whole.

In terms of disruption, it really depends on the school. DDs State school are very detention happy and poor behaviour isn’t tolerated. She did well in her SATS and is streamed in classes that have high expectations in terms of performance. We do live in an affluent area but there is a skiing trip, equestrian team, international trips, studio theatre, recording studio and their art work is featured on the Saatchi Gallery website. State doesn’t necessarily mean less advantages.

Christ, if I had that much dosh I wouldn't think twice about going private!

For those saying 'i wouldn't think twice on your income' - 170k a year is approx 100k net. Private secondary school is approx 20k a year per child, give or take. So with three kids close together that's potentially 60% of your take-home income just on schooling! 40k net left is hardly on the poverty line, but equally not a huge amount for a family of 5 in the SE. To my mind I would prefer to keep the kids in state education and use the spare 60k a year to give them amazing experiences! Sure 170k is an enormous income, but there again private school costs an insane amount of money!

Are you thinking about a private day school (fees around £15k) or a public school (nearer £30k). We've gone selective day school and I couldn't be happier. My non sporty child is playing Saturday fixtures weekly and has practice a few times a week. This simply wouldn't be the case in state in my local area - and she is delighted. She has been in 3 concerts since September and rehearsing for 3 separate drama performances all of which will take place in the school theatre. Loads of opportunity for extra curricular and most of it is included in the fees. Academically she is flying and I have never had so much feedback regarding performance.

My only worry currently is lower offers for state educated kids at uni but hope that by the time she applies this will be ironed out enough that families on £170k a year don't benefit simply because they went to a state school.

3 kids in private school will near bankrupt you if you are relying on salary income. A barrister I work with had to sell his house and start renting to put his 3 kids through the best private schools. It nearly destroyed him financially. And once you have gone down that road there's little chance to turn back, as it will be cruel to pull your kids out of school once they have settled there.

As someone who has a child in a private prep school (I only have 1) if I were to do it all over again, I would choose the local state primary any day.

Save your money for tutors/university/properties for your kids and enjoy your life.

Just catching up very briefly and will be back later to read in more detail. We are actually in the North and the fees are £12k per annum. Not cheap but significantly cheaper than schools further south.

@WillowSummerSloth I know you meant the North, but my daughter is currently at a North London prep and I only pay in the region of £13K per year, but looking at secondary schools the price jumps significantly!

How much are the fees? They vary enormously.

Would any of your children get scholarships?

What does your DS think?

What other savings do you have? What safety net do you have if one of you dies or is unable to work?

Sorry, just seen the fees. So you're looking at about £275-£300k for all three including future fee increases and other costs.

How much of your current lifestyle would you have to sacrifice? Have you spreadsheeted it?

That will increase though Willow as they progress upwards through the school won’t it? Then add in the 2 other DD and that’s a minimum of £39K a year. It’s obviously entirely up to you both and what’s right for your family. I’m happy we found a compromise solution that both DH & I liked and that the DD did too, it definitely wasn’t our starting point though! I’d would wholeheartedly advocate starting again from scratch and looking properly at a very broad range of schools in the wider area, it worked for us. Good luck!

Finding one school to fit all three will be a challenge. Hold on to the fact that you can afford private for all, then send dc1 to the school that best suits them.

When it's time to look for dc2, find the school that best suits them. And same with dc3.

We gave DD the deciding choice, an amazing private school with bells and whistles, a rather dingy looking but otherwise excellent grammar. We didn’t mention money to her even though the cost would have been a struggle for us. She chose the grammar as she identified with the girls there, it had Engineering which the private school didn’t and the grammar was closer.

I appreciate it is harder when there are three DCs involved but what does DC1 think? Which would they prefer? Having a child invested in their choice of school really makes a difference to their attitude to learning and in their general happiness IME.

On that salary? Is this even a genuine question? FWIW we have a meagre joint income of £80k, pay two sets of school fees and we're fine. That said, we own our house outright.

Fantago if op lived in London and was talking top public schools for 3 kids, then 170k would not be nearly enough. As it turns out, she doesn't and isn't! Context is key. Not having a mortgage for instance is probably at least one set of school fees...

Yes it's a real question! Our mortgage is £2k a month. It obviously won't put us on the bread line but it will involve compromises and we're trying to figure out which compromises we are prepared to make with either option. DH and I are going to chat again tonight (it's a rather ongoing conversation) and we'll be using lots of what people have mentioned here to guide our discussion.

The only real benefit I can see in my daughter's prep school is that they really push them academically (at the cost of a more nurturing environment), give tons of homework and really prep them for the 11+. But most kids also have tutors for the 11+ outside of school and the amount of homework and pace of studies is really tough on kids so young.

I'm privately educated and my children go to state school. I don't believe that private school is always better unless it's selective and that isn't what you're talking about. Being in a school with a load of wealthy mixed ability kids (like the one I went to) is no better than being in a school with a load of mixed wealth mixed ability kids in my experience. It just means that you have a lot more knobheads who think money makes them better people. I have no friends from school. I hated it.

Unless there is only 1 state option and 1 private option I would recommend looking at other places too

Agree with the PP who said you should be looking at the best school for each child - not one size fits all 3

But taking 3 kids to different schools is a logistical nightmare (which some of my daughter's classmates have). Find a grammar school witha sibling policy (like Dame Alice Owen in London) get one in at 11+ and that's you done! And then enjoy your lifestyle and savings