Shout and scream or Coffee and Tea??

[leightonupman]

Hi there all

I could use your worldly wisdom re my 12 year old little girl.

She’s just started secondary school and has landed in the lowest band.

She’s getting on ok but I’m unhappy about her staying there. The longer she stays there the more comfortable she’s becoming, and the harder I can see it will be to get her to move up a band. Being a Dad I’m terrified she’ll end up in a sht job - hey you gotta think long term right? To my mind we need to intervene now in year 7 whilst she’s doing Key Stage 3, so she’s got a fighting chance of getting some decent GCSEs post KS4.

We are providing a maths tutor to help her once a week, Maths being her weakest area. We are also giving her homework in the absence of homework coming from the school. They don’t seem to give it much at the moment, which is annoying the hell out of me.

Long and short is I am having real trouble putting faith in the school to help her improve - my gut feeling is that they are happy for her to just amble along as she is instead of making extra effort to help her improve and move up, which I can’t accept. I’m not convinced that moving up a band is entirely based on merit or hard results. I think they sometimes move a kid just to move a problem from one place to another. This is my little girl’s future right?

All this angst is taking its toll on me and my wife. My girl is out of earshot when we’re rowing about it. It’s a cause of arguments at home with my wife. I’ve had the initial meeting with the head of KS which didn’t fill me with confidence. Early on in primary school I pressed for extra help but got told to back off and let them do their job, which I accepted at the time. But guess what? My girl didn’t improve and ends up in the lower band in secondary. This time I’m determined not to make the same mistake. I’m taking full control to make sure she’s improving, in loads of time before GCSEs.

We can only do so much at home with the tutor and homework we give her but the kid has to have a life as well right?

When we’ve spoken to her a few times about moving up, she’s not a fan of change and so the move is daunting, but I think she would be glad really - a move up is an affirming thing right?

I’m now treating her lack of progress like a complaint basically. I’m pulling together whatever data I can and getting ready to hurl it at the school and the board in the (likely) event she still hasn’t improved by end of the second term. I’m worried they will try to b sht us again and still do nothing to help.

Should I back off? If so how much? Leave her to it? Or do I go full out and put in a formal complaint that the school isn’t doing enough to help her improve . Where is the middle line? And do I need to stop worrying so much about her future and let things be what will be? And what’s the right approach with the school? A series of calm measured discussions over the coming months to work out what needs to change (not working so far btw), or do I go old school and give the teachers a boll**cking? Sadly this approach seems to have worked for at least one parent I know. Sometimes in big businesses when complaining as a consumer, he who shouts loudest gets heard, and it’s worked for me before, but is this the right approach now?? I can't see an approach to take with teachers that will give me the outcomes we want? What approach works best with teachers to get results from them? Sounds cold I know but please cut me some slack - I'm a stupid bloke. It's the reason I'm asking you guys

I know these teachers are under incredible strain as it is and I am the last one to make someone’s life worse. But again this is my kid’s future. Bottom line is we need my girl to be ready to do well when she gets to KS4 and beyond.

And if there’s any doubt here, we both love this little girl beyond measure - she’s the centre of our lives and just want to do right by her and I will do whatever it takes.

Help me sensible ones, could really use some different perspectives and strategies etc.

‘They are happy for her to just amble along’

We have to justify the progress of every single student to hang onto our jobs. Believe me, no one will be letting her amble along.

And giving a teacher a ** is guaranteed to piss them right off. What a charming comment.

Unfortunately you may have to accept that she is in the bottom set as that is where her anbility places her. She may move up a set, she may not. But teachers are professionals, and l am aware of the abilities of all the 220 or so kids l teach every week. Every single one of them.

Move her if you are unhappy with the school, but don’t take it out on her teachers. I’ve been teaching 25 years and have never had a ** from a parent. And if l did lveould go straight to my union who would be onto it

Ok fair enough! I get it, but put yourself in my shoes. If you thought your kid wasn't getting the best out of the school system what would you do? I didn't really come here for an argument, I'm looking for alternative options? I'm not accepting that she is where she is and there's nothing we can do about it. Could really use some constructive suggestions rather than a rant please.

Are you sure she just doesn't have any more ability than she is currently showing? Not every child can get the highest grades, that isn't a criticism of them or the school but it is a fact. Yes tuition might help a bit, but what if you need to keep it up until she's 16? Can yo u afford that?
Is she perhaps really good at something else you hold less stock in - music or art etc?
If you're concerned they're not enabling her enough, have a calm meeting, ask them what they're doing to help her develop and what you as parents can do.
Accept that she might never be an academic high flier but that she's still awesome.stop arguing with our wife over whether your 12 yo is good enough.

Also she doesn't need tons of homework, she's been in big school just a couple of months.

Dude sometimes you have to accept your kid ain't bright. Find something she is good or enthusiastic at and hone that.

Are we talking bottom set of a super selective grammar or are we talking about a comp? What do you think your child is capable of?

Agree that going in guns blazing is not helpful.

Don't give the teachers a bollocking. It most certainly does not work. Ask them how you can support her. No teacher is just letting their students get on with it. It doesn't work like that. We are held responsible for our students progress.

Cheers guys.. Call me old school but Maths English and Science are what employers are insisting on these days. To have any options moving forward in the job market I'm pretty sure these are staples like always

She's in comp' by the way..

Is she making progress? Some kids are brighter than others and the teachers can’t magic her into a higher set. Does she have any SEN?

Can you explain succinctly what you see the problem to be? As far I can work out from your post the problem is she is in bottom band. If that’s the case then that is probbaly the most appropriate place for her to learn. A child in too high a set will often struggle.

Is she really not making any progress at all or is her progress inline with her starting point? There is a huge difference between these things.

Don’t just give her random homework it’s unlikely to do anything positive. The best thing you can do is to encourage a love of reading. Do you and your wife read for pleasure? Do you do dicuss books? These things make a huge difference. At 12 she is not too old for you to still be reading books to her.

The educational environment is so competitive these days. Try not to get trapped in that mentality, and unpick exactly what is going on with your dd. Have some conversations with her about the work she does at school and how much of it she is able to take in. It might be that she has a specific learning disability if she seems intelligent outside of school. Other people have already suggested that you have a careful think about where her abilities lie. Make sure you are not projecting your own insecurities onto her. Good luck.

Yes English, Maths and Science are important but there more than one way to skin a cat.what does your daughter enjoy studying? Where is her natural aptitude?

She's made a little progress in Science but not English and Maths. She doesn't have any SEN but I'm just asking the school to do more coaching for her in Maths and English

Some children are always going to be less able. Going on about it to your DD is hardly going to boost her confidence in her ability!

Some children actually perform better in the lower sets. They are often smaller groups than the upper sets so that the pupils can be given more support and more time spent on new topics.

After one term in Y7 I doubt that you will see much progress regardless of which set she is in. Most of Y7 is spent consolidating existing knowledge - with children having come from different schools, there will always be gaps in everyone's knowledge.

On what basis are you assessing your DDs lack of progress? Have the school expressed any concerns? When you told the teachers what to do in the primary school did they give any indication that your DD might have any special needs? Has she been assessed for eg dyslexia etc?

Is she in Year 7? One term is a very short amount of time to show progress especially in year 7 where you daughter needs to settle into a new routine. People in a new job normally need a few months settling in before they start producing their best work.

When do you want school to do this ‘coaching’ and how do you propose they find staff to do this?

She seems to like science. Maths is difficult for her. If she had a choice I think she'd pick English over maths. My gut feeling is she is more into creative, artsy things than hard logic etc. She enjoys constructing these animations on her phone and we're about to publish them on You Tube. But again here's the thing. To have any decent options leaving school, an employer looks for English and Maths. As much as I'd love to just concentrate on this artsy musically creative side she got, in today's uk job market without English and Maths options become a a lot more limited.

When you had parents evening/ report last half term did they discuss your child’s effort? If she’s really trying her best and still not doing as well as you perceive she should maybe she needs to explore other areas of the curriculum to boost her confidence.
For what it’s worth she will probably have picked up on the tension at home home and your aspirations so try to have a more constructive dialogue with you oh.
Is she happy at school? Did she go up with her friends or is she making new friends?

She hasn’t any SEN yet she’s in the bottom set? Is she actually working?
You seem focused on what you want her to achieve but without any actual understanding of her level of competence or ability.
I can want to be an astronaut. Doesn’t mean I could ever do it. Some kids can’t get top grades in English and Maths. This is even more true in the U.K. where the top GCSE grades are getting harder and harder to achieve.

Are you saying she’s made no progress in English and maths in over a year? What do her teachers say at parent’s evening? Because that will have been flagged as an issue by the school. What does her tutor say about her maths?

Incidentally, she’s 12. Maybe time to stop calling her a “little girl”?

’When do you want school to do this ‘coaching’ and how do you propose they find staff to do this?’
^ This.

Instead, why not ask the maths teacher for a small set of targets for your DD and work on these with her at home (or get a tutor to). Then next term ask for a new set of targets, etc, etc.

So is she making no progress as in has gained no maths knowledge over the last 3 months or as in hasn't moved up a set?
What does her tutor think?

What are yo uand your wife actually arguing about?

Keep encouraging her arty side. Having self confidence in herself will help in the areas she's less strong at

I wondered if they could swap a couple of subjects outside of the Maths English and Science, and give her extra coaching in Maths and English in those time slots.

How's your girls confidence ? I was very shy starting secondary school and it didn't help as I was afraid to ask questions or for help from others or the teachers.

I was in the bottom sets of some subjects, when joining my comp. (We has 3 sets, there were 6 classes - so supposedly 2 tops sets, 2 middle, 2 bottom) I didn't want to be with those bottom set children, as a lot of them their behaviour was horrendous and they didn't want to learn. I was desperate to move up and did manage it in most subjects ( apart from French) I just literally did my own homework making flash cards, so rewriting out my notes helped it go over it and to understand it more.

One thing I would say is I made a lovely couple of friends in the bottoms sets, so not all the children were bad.

My parents were very hands off, both very intelligent naturally but both went to Grammar schools. They had no idea that sets determine what GCSE paper you take and therefore limit your grades.

I did ok in my GCSEs gaining a couple of As, one being in Art but also English. I managed a C in maths but I did find that really hard having moved up sets slowly.

Anyway maybe try a different approach something like drama club or I don't know pottery or jewellery making . I started drama to push myself.

Get her to find something she can gain confidence in and enjoy and that will help her. Plus I think giving your time to run through work with her is important.

It's a big job to speak to each teacher of each subject, and you don't want to embarrass her or make her feel pressured but I can't see it can hurt to show you care. Does she have a form tutor you can start with rather than people that might not know her so well such as head of years?

You sound just like my dad. I wasn’t interested in any of that, but I was very good at it and it was expected of me so that’s what I did for my whole school career. All the science subjects and maths. I managed to squeeze in music and Latin but only because the Latin teacher gave up her time to let me sit the subject outside of the actual class times. But I did what my dad told me and that was “employers only care about science”. I went to uni and studied science, I got a job in that field. I hated every minute of it.

6 months after uni I retrained in an artistic field (which is what I’d always wanted to do but was told not to waste my talent at ‘smart’ subjects). I now run a successfull business, based on the arts. My school career, my degree and my 6 months working were a complete waste of my time. And I only did it because of the force my dad used when discussing school.

If she’s not smart, then sorry but she’s just not got the ability you want her to have. You can push her and get her tutors and all the rest of it, or you can find out what SHE wants. What are her strengths? What does he enjoy? Who does she want to be?