Shout and scream or Coffee and Tea??

[leightonupman]

Hi there all

I could use your worldly wisdom re my 12 year old little girl.

She’s just started secondary school and has landed in the lowest band.

She’s getting on ok but I’m unhappy about her staying there. The longer she stays there the more comfortable she’s becoming, and the harder I can see it will be to get her to move up a band. Being a Dad I’m terrified she’ll end up in a sht job - hey you gotta think long term right? To my mind we need to intervene now in year 7 whilst she’s doing Key Stage 3, so she’s got a fighting chance of getting some decent GCSEs post KS4.

We are providing a maths tutor to help her once a week, Maths being her weakest area. We are also giving her homework in the absence of homework coming from the school. They don’t seem to give it much at the moment, which is annoying the hell out of me.

Long and short is I am having real trouble putting faith in the school to help her improve - my gut feeling is that they are happy for her to just amble along as she is instead of making extra effort to help her improve and move up, which I can’t accept. I’m not convinced that moving up a band is entirely based on merit or hard results. I think they sometimes move a kid just to move a problem from one place to another. This is my little girl’s future right?

All this angst is taking its toll on me and my wife. My girl is out of earshot when we’re rowing about it. It’s a cause of arguments at home with my wife. I’ve had the initial meeting with the head of KS which didn’t fill me with confidence. Early on in primary school I pressed for extra help but got told to back off and let them do their job, which I accepted at the time. But guess what? My girl didn’t improve and ends up in the lower band in secondary. This time I’m determined not to make the same mistake. I’m taking full control to make sure she’s improving, in loads of time before GCSEs.

We can only do so much at home with the tutor and homework we give her but the kid has to have a life as well right?

When we’ve spoken to her a few times about moving up, she’s not a fan of change and so the move is daunting, but I think she would be glad really - a move up is an affirming thing right?

I’m now treating her lack of progress like a complaint basically. I’m pulling together whatever data I can and getting ready to hurl it at the school and the board in the (likely) event she still hasn’t improved by end of the second term. I’m worried they will try to b sht us again and still do nothing to help.

Should I back off? If so how much? Leave her to it? Or do I go full out and put in a formal complaint that the school isn’t doing enough to help her improve . Where is the middle line? And do I need to stop worrying so much about her future and let things be what will be? And what’s the right approach with the school? A series of calm measured discussions over the coming months to work out what needs to change (not working so far btw), or do I go old school and give the teachers a boll**cking? Sadly this approach seems to have worked for at least one parent I know. Sometimes in big businesses when complaining as a consumer, he who shouts loudest gets heard, and it’s worked for me before, but is this the right approach now?? I can't see an approach to take with teachers that will give me the outcomes we want? What approach works best with teachers to get results from them? Sounds cold I know but please cut me some slack - I'm a stupid bloke. It's the reason I'm asking you guys

I know these teachers are under incredible strain as it is and I am the last one to make someone’s life worse. But again this is my kid’s future. Bottom line is we need my girl to be ready to do well when she gets to KS4 and beyond.

And if there’s any doubt here, we both love this little girl beyond measure - she’s the centre of our lives and just want to do right by her and I will do whatever it takes.

Help me sensible ones, could really use some different perspectives and strategies etc.

Oh, hang on- she’s in year7. Children often make little progress at the beginning of year 7 because the transition from primary is a huge step. I wouldn’t be worrying yet if she’s happy and settling in well.

Swap a couple of subjects?
You really have no understanding of how schools and staffing work.
You’ve not answered any questions about her level of ability or effort.
Are you being deliberately obtuse or just a troll?

I wondered if they could swap a couple of subjects outside of the Maths English and Science, and give her extra coaching in Maths and English in those time slots.

Because I am sure the school has a couple of spare teachers sitting around doing nothing in those lessons just waiting to 'coach' your DD!

You still haven't said on what basis you are assessing progress? Have you had a report yet, or a parents evening?

If your DD enjoys the 'artsy' subjects as you so condescendingly call them, let her enjoy them. There are some very rich You Tubers out there you know!

I think you should home school her. Then post us the updates.

’I wondered if they could swap a couple of subjects outside of the Maths English and Science, and give her extra coaching in Maths and English in those time slots.’

1. Who would do the coaching?
2. Would you really want your DD to miss out on subjects that she might actually be good at/enjoy/have a future in?

Schools don’t have any teachers just sitting around twiddling their thumbs wondering what to do. They will have full timetables with classes to teach.

You talk a lot about what you are doing with/for your daughter. And an awful lot about what the school/teachers should be doing.

But you know who matters most in this picture? Your daughter. And you are really quiet about her input, frankly.

I’m now treating her lack of progress like a complaint basically

^^And this is just one of the reasons our accountability system is now almost entirely unfit for progress. Parents seeing themselves as customers, with top grades an entitlement for all. And blaming everyone but their own kid if their own kid won't - or, poor sod, can't - perform exactly as mummy and daddy demand.

If it were just one subject she was struggling in, I would say look at what the teacher is doing and how others in the class are progressing etc as it could well be a bad teacher problem. If she is struggling across the board (and also did so in primary school), it suggests that the school isn’t the problem, but maybe her ability. I would speak to the school about her lack of progress, not to complain, but to ask for their insight as to what they think her problem is and how it can be addressed. All teachers have a whole class to teach so I doubt they are singling your DD out to give her crappy teaching- she just might not be that academically inclined. Any approach to the school should be from a perspective of requesting support, not the ‘bollocking attitude’- you can’t actually identify any specific thing to criticize, just your DD’s performance.

Obviously your concern is understandable and it’s good that you are taking an interest in her education, but do so in the appropriate way. Tutoring may provide a good indication of whether she can improve with one to one support and to what extent.

Jeez, you sound like a hard ass. I have a successful career in the arts and I needed one E at GCSE to get it. Imagine being forced to do extra maths science and English at school. What a lovely school life that would be.

You'll ruin her school days which are supposed to be a time to learn and grow and develop - not just academically - and she won't thank you for it. Back off and let her grow. There's plenty of time for tutoring later if you're still intent on pushing her somewhere she doesn't want to go.

('unfit for purpose', not progress. Freudian...)

Give her time to settle into the new school. The English and English will come together. Especially if you've got a good tutor. Encourage her passions and interests. If she can excel at those it would be wonderful if she could turn them into a career. It's everybody's dream to do something they love and prospective employers will see that spark because it will be obvious. And if they don't she will know how to set herself up in business.

Maybe your child just belongs in bottom band? If you throw her in a higher band and she bombs it then her confidence will nosedive and you'll see very bad results. Do you and her mother have good qualifications?

If it helps, I was in band 3 (4th band out of 7) at secondary... I still managed the highest English grade in the year at GCSE. A bright child will achieve good grades no matter the band.

Put her in private school if she's not overly bright and you want her to get good grades.

And Maths, I meant to write!

OP, how on Earth do you think schools operate?!

School cannot allow your daughter to drop a few subjects to concentrate on English and Maths. A) they don't have the staff to allow for this- all staff will have a full timetable as they will be teaching all the other children in the school. B) Your DD is being taught the KS3 National Curriculum which has a lot of content. She cannot skip some of it.

Your options appear to be: work in partnership with the school- ask the English teacher or subject lead what you can be doing to support her at home. Same for Maths and Science. Speak to your daughter- is she working to the best of her ability or could she perhaps up her game (having a DF who refers to her as his little girl at 12 only reinforces to her that Daddy will always be there to pick up the pieces for her. She needs to learn to take ownership of her own learning). If you have genuine concerns that she still isn't making progress after you've done all the above- speak to the school SENCO and possibly your GP to see if she may have an underlying issue which could be investigated. Ooh- and book an opticians appointment. It always amazes me that some kids in KS3 are completely blind as bats and don't say anything to anyone. You might find that she needs glasses and makes progress after this.

But don't bash the teaching profession. The teachers in her school are held to account and do not need additional checks and measures put in place by you- an unqualified and seemingly uninformed parent who actually has no idea how the curriculum operates or how school operates. If you want to get involved- great! Join the governing body or something. Be proactive.

Put her in private school if she's not overly bright and you want her to get good grades.

I admit I thought this too.

During my whole school career I was average. Not bottom set but just average and ambled along. The thing is I was competing against my twin who was a top set, A* student. He absolutely flew in maths, English and science and was moved up to the year above. At home, at parents evening, at school I was asked over and over why I was not progressing faster. Why was I not in the top set like my twin. What was going wrong. Could I be pushed to do better? The answer is no, no amount of pushing (my parents tried) would change the fact that I was average in those subjects.
The biggest issue with this and something that still hurts me today is the fact my parents and teachers were so focused on my achievements in maths etc... that they failed to recognise and nurture my actual talents, which were in social care (I got a good grade in that Luckily, by myself). The comments I mentioned above made me hate education. I never felt good enough. No one realised I was good at other things so as a consequence I gave up. I preferred hanging out with my mates and skipping lessons. I didn't see the point in trying as I was not like my twin. I did leave school with some ok grades, through sheer luck I think.
I'm 30 now and I have a very good career, I went back to college then on to university as an adult off my own back. I was told I'd never get a degree by everyone. I have progressed further than I could have imagined. Without blowing my own trumpet I'm pretty good at it. You know what it's in ! Social care.
I have never been congratulated by my parents. I think my mother feels slightly embarrassed by the fact that she adored my twin as he was good at maths and told anyone who would listen. You know what he is in an average job and dropped out of uni. Part of that is that as he got older the pushing and high expectations got too much and he fell out of love with education. I earn and have potential to earn much more than he ever will. You know what though. I'd have got here a lot sooner and before I had to do it with kids in tow and self fund uni, if my parents had recognised that I had talents elsewhere.
I have never once had anyone say they are proud of me.They all huddled round my twin on results day. I'd still love to hear it from my mum now.
So the point to this incredibly long story, stop pushing. Help, tell her your proud, make learning fun, recognise and nurture her talents and interests even if the lie elsewhere.

“A bright child will achieve good grades no matter the band.”

Not necessarily true- sometimes lower sets do lower tier exams so can’t get higher grades. But no need for the OP to be thinking about that yet.

I don't believe for a moment this is a real post.. no one thinks schools would it should change subjects around so a child can do just English and maths. Annoying wind up merchant.

Guys thanks so much.

Frankly this thread has been a very humbling experience. I take on board your views and to heart also. I wanted feedback and I got it, so thank you.

Having read everything to date, this is what I now think is best:

Calm measured parents evenings and meetings if appropriate - no ranting or shouting or screaming, promise!!! Partnership is the key take away
Focus on her strengths and building her confidence in areas or subjects she enjoys.
Ask teachers for insight into how she can improve.
Be satisfied that she is happy at school, which she is.
Dump my own insecurities which may be pushing this whole thing along more than I want to admit.
Take her to an optician - check for dyslexia also, just in case.
Talk to her more about how she sees the future and what she wants to do going forward. Encourage her, and her creative artsy side to build confidence generally.
Pick up reading to her again - we used to read to her every single night but then one day at the end of primary I think, she didn’t seem to want it. We ask her to read some during the school week once or twice a week but perhaps could do more are we saying?
Perhaps encourage clubs in the things she likes.
I’ll keep the Maths tuition going for now - it’s only an hour a week and I don’t think it’s harming at least.
Stop giving her homework after school when the school doesn’t?
Promote learning fun rather than a chore.

What do you think??

Sounds like a plan!

I really do think this is the right approach. If school aren't complaining that your DD is mucking about/not doing homework etc, then she is obviously trying.

If she is allowed to enjoy what she likes and is good at, her confidence will improve and may help boost her other subjects.

I think the maths tutor is fine.

Good luck to you all.

I give my 2 extra homework. We've got a subscription to One Third Stories for spanish, and we're working through Scottish history (because in school they only hit the main historical figures and a couple of battles). But mine are only 5 and 7 so it's really just story telling with them, not sitting them down to so work.

We do extra reading and numbers, but again, it's fun. We play games rather than doing actual work.

As they get older, I'm going to see how it goes but I imagine I will always give them something to do until they reach high school. Then they need to concentrate on their subjects, and I wouldn't know the curriculum enough to give them applicable extra work.

It's up to you if you want to find out the curriculum and give her appropriate learning resources.

Fantastic. I really appreciated all the honest experiences you relayed to me here also.

I'm open to any more suggestions and help you can offer and I'll amend my plan accordingly.

My parents used to take me on outings relevant to things we were learning in school e.g. a castle when we had a castles project, a walk where I had to navigate when we were doing map skills etc. I have no doubt this enhanced my learning in school and helped me to understand concepts and enjoy the topics more but it wasn't extra homework as such.
If you can't do that then what about finding relevant videos and documentaries on YouTube for her to watch at home to support what she is learning in school?

These are great suggestions, but I have to admit I'm an idiot when it comes to understanding how to make Maths and English fun specifically. Any ideas on these guys? If it's not practise maths and English in a workbook then what?

Hi OP you literally could be writing this post (almost) for me! My DD is summer baby in Y6 and has struggled with maths since day 1. I have always been very proactive in trying to work with school to help her. KS1 teachers basically told me to relax, she's young, she'll get there. Well she is still bottom and struggling and I'm dreading SATs now.

We've had a maths tutor once a week for a year now and one thing that's improved massively is her confidence so I'm at the stage now with it that - She seems happier with maths and whilst she works her bloody socks off at it she will probably always find it hard. Teachers all say she's hard working. I know in the past I've been guilty of projecting and comparison but I've also felt let down by what I perceive as schools willingness to just let her plod on. She basically hovers just under the "below age expectation " level or equivalent.

So sorry nothing to add but to say I know exactly where your coming from. And yep, DH have often taken our worries about this out on each other! Life after school for our kids seems especially uncertain and competitive and we desperately want them to be ready. For me you absolutely need to crack maths for this!

I think other posters have provided a useful reality check and your plan going forward sounds like a really good one. I can see why some have been hard on you but totally get how much of a worry it is.

FWIW I think she's got good parents behind her who will help and that's more than some kids have. Just make sure you always tell her how brilliant she is and how proud you are of her - help build her self belief.

Good luck OP