What can non uni educated/low income parents do to bridge the educational gap

[ilikespaghetti]

Read part of the parental income thread & felt quite disheartned, dh & I are non uni educated & would be on quite an average payscale. We want to give dc the best educational prospects we can but all the odds are against us so it seems. How can the likes of us bridge the edcuational gap & ensure our dc can compete with kids from private schools & kids who are from homes where both parents have degrees etc... Bit sad reading the thread to be honest...

Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if I am repeating. And this is a general comment, not specifically directed at the OP.

I would say the most important thing is to let them see that you value education, but learning for the sake of learning as much as exam results. And this means supporting their schools and teachers, volunteer if you can, if not always attend parents evenings & social events, don't keep them off school unnecessarily, don't badmouth their teachers in front of them. Talk about older children in the extended family or neighbourhood who have gone on to uni or college or apprenticeships & give them role models to aspire to.

And let them see you reading for pleasure.

It took me so long to type that it looks like I just copied the previous post!

Everything everyone else has said but I'd also say you need to inspire in your children an independent streak. They have to want to break out of their groove and from the herd.

DH's granddad was a miner - sent down the mine on his 14th birthday. His teacher went to the house and begged his parents to let him stay at school because he was such a clever boy but he was the eldest of 10. On his 18th birthday he left the house and instead of going to work he went to Cardiff and joined the army.

He broke out; his brothers and sisters and their children still moan about the impact of the mines closing. They could have broken out too but they didn't have the confidence or independence to do it.

Interestingly I don't think it is always about money. I am from a quite wealthy farming family. I was probably the last of the generation where there wasn't a great expectation to go to university, especially for girls, where nobody much cared about O'Levels, where you could still get a good City job without a degree if you knew the right people, where lots of girls did a secretarial course and a cordon bleu cookery course, etc. Shuddersome now. But all of my family were well educated and well travelled.

Sometimes I think the emphasis on qualifications and degrees has become extraordinary. Even DH's granddad who left school at 14 was incredibly well read and well educated, wrote well and was ace at arithmetic. I see so often job applications from young people who have, sometimes two Masters degrees, and they can't write well, and sometimes those who do get to interview have no idea how to present themselves and speak in a clear and articulate way. I once interviewed someone, albeit for an entry level job, and throughout the interview they said "you know" 47 times - after the first question I started marking fives.

What would also set your dcs apart - if they had the inclination and which I think some private schools do really well at - is an encouragement for an independent project that is not academic related.

Here's a real example - this kid who wanted to help old people who were forgetful of their things. He created a trackable device to locate keys, for example, now its being investigated as a possible business and the school is helping him with ideas for a business plan and resourcing.

-What to create a new app and launch it into the market?
-Want to help fundraise for a good cause but take it beyond just a local cupcake stall?
-Want to help out with a local political party (just to get an idea what goes on behind the scenes and who's who and how local politics work and can affect the community)

Any micro-initiatives that bring in relevant local society problem solving would close that gap pretty fast and impress future employers.

Cookie

Having come from the poorest and most deprived London schools to getting to the top - those are my observations and the small things like experiencing a top restaurant was something that astounded me for a while and really intimidated me and I wish I was exposed to it much earlier.

Also you can get some information from a Debretts etiquette book or on the internet to get information to help not be intimidated by knives and forks etc.

What I said before about having your children present with adults at meals and gatherings, with all ages communicating helps too. Look someone in the eye when you talk to them is a good rule. Stand up and hold out your hand to greet someone when someone new comes into the room is a useful, simple rule too.

Kings - That's a good idea regarding Deberetts etc!

Yep. Every PP child should be given a free copy of Debrett's.

That'all sort out the attainment gap.

Meanwhile, back in the real world......

From day 1 have "It's good to know stuff" as a family motto. Say often in answer to questions "I don't know, let's find out"

talk about older children in the extended family or neighbourhood who have gone on to uni or college or apprenticeships & give them role models to aspire to Be careful with this one - my mother always uses it and frankly it gives me the rage - someone is always doing better - sister/brother/neighbour, she never acknowledges our success and only values exams and position in life....never happiness.

I would say discover the thing that they are good at and enjoy and encourage them to be the best they can be at that one thing. Not everyone needs to go to Uni to make a huge success out of their lives but they do need passion, grit and resilience. I know a few adults who are bloody miserable in their careers after being over influenced by their well meaning parents.

I'm low paid but I do have a degree.

I take DD to lots of events all the time, loads of museums, day trips, art classes, shows, libraries, parks etc and pay for music, drama lessons etc. We also have lots of hobbies at home and she reads all the time. She's top of her class.

It's not all about going to a good school these days. There's nothing you can't learn from YouTube.

Debretts and Michelin starred restaurants

My parents left school at 15, very poor background etc. When I went to uni (second behind by sister) what I found intimidating was going to any restaurant. I'd been out for pub lunches with my family, but I didn't have a clue about things like 'the house white', or tipping.

I still feel a bit inferior hence my post... Always hold you head up high, people with money and education are no better or worse than you. If someone ever looks down on you for what ever reason, it's their short comings not yours. I agree too, people that boast usually do this from something lacking in themselves, someone that's sure and confident in themselves has no need to do this.

Also know that you'll never completely know your way around a Michelin menu because it is deliberately written using unusual culinary terms and exotic ingredients (or more likely common ingredients/cooking techniques in a foreign language - not always French either!) you are not expected to be able to understand, asking for an explanation from the waiting staff does not make you appear inexperienced and uneducated - so be confident and ask!

As this thread was started in relation to the one about high income families buying better educational outcomes, I'll put the graphs from the OP of that thread here.

The GCSE pass rate A*-C in English and Maths is 43.1% for PP students and 70.6% for non-disadvantaged students.

Before we start rolling out elocution lessons and cutlery guides for these kids, getting them through their exams has to be a priority.

Yes noblegiraffe. That's why I think some of the "money doesn't matter, it's all down to your individual strength of character" posts are rather less positive than they appear at first.

I echo the comments about books and good television but also make sure you have a good internet connection (if available in your area) and reasonable screen/processor.

There are amazing renderings and online tours of museums and galleries globally and locally as well as some really good online learning resources for all ages. When mine were young the high quality tours were not available but I would have liked them in terms of 'what are we going to see first' and 'what did we like best'. Test some out yourself first then you can select what you think they will enjoy.

My DM was bright girl who had to work at 14 because she and her widowed mother were too poor to take up a scholarship. My DF was slightly better off but not to the extent that he could consider University (although he did his degree at night school ended up as a visiting lecturer). We had very little money when I was your DC age, but I was always encouraged and we used the library, local free resources.
I went to university, run a Big4 practice, 6 figure salary from that background.

Before we start rolling out elocution lessons and cutlery guides for these kids, getting them through their exams has to be a priority.

Yes very much this. My parents always taught me that education and passing those exams was my potential ticket to better things. I don't think they every considered elocution lessons :)

I do think exams are the priority but I also feel there's context for other stuff. Let's take DH. Oxbridge, top of his game by 40, grandad a miner, mother a school teacher, father an engineer. Both eyewateringly poor growing up and they never shook it off, they never ate out, they never gave their children innate self confidence, they never taught them what I consider basic table manners, or did anything to help them feel at ease with anyone, to shake a hand, to make small talk, etc.

I taught DH to do those things when I met him in his late 20s. He was doing alright but I'm not sure if he'd have broken through the ceiling to the top of his career. I think they do matter. DM is never comfortable in a nice restaurant because sadly she is clueless. She doesn't know how to order, she isn't confident asking for anything, she doesn't know how to eat a fish with bones, an artichoke, what to do with fruit from a fruitbowl, her napkin, etc, and the saddest thing is that she us both self conscious about it and has never bothered to learn.

Roses, you say that you taught your DH to do these things because his DM couldn't as she didn't know how, then criticised her for not bothering to learn. How would your DH have learned without you, who already knew these things to teach him? Presumably you knew, because someone taught you. How was his DM supposed to learn?

DM is never comfortable in a nice restaurant because sadly she is clueless.

What a charming description of someone from a different background lacking in confidence.

Roses- that is such a horrible post. Is it some sort of irony? Please tell me you don't really think like that.......

I'm not sure how someone who can't afford to eat in nice restaurants (or whose parents can't afford to take them to one) can learn to be comfortable in one.

Maybe they could role play?

It's not hard to catch up with eating in nice restaurants - it really isn't anything to consider worrying about till you are almost graduating. Neither dh or I ate in nice restaurants growing up - we caught on quickly ....it's not all complicated, intimidating eating.....it's meant to be enjoyable!

BertrandRussell Sat 06-May-17 09:37:44
Yep. Every PP child should be given a free copy of Debrett's.

That'all sort out the attainment gap.

You've taken something out of context Bertrand. Please see Cookie's earlier post. CookieDoughKid Sat 06-May-17 05:43:05
She knew what she was talking about having had direct experience of achieving a great deal even though she had come through from difficult background herself. She was stressing the importance of other factors, including social self-confidence, over and above exams.

I think you probably want to educate your child about social etiquette but maybe should steer away from being excessively judgy about other's etiquette - it's an incredibly ugly trait.