What can non uni educated/low income parents do to bridge the educational gap

[ilikespaghetti]

Read part of the parental income thread & felt quite disheartned, dh & I are non uni educated & would be on quite an average payscale. We want to give dc the best educational prospects we can but all the odds are against us so it seems. How can the likes of us bridge the edcuational gap & ensure our dc can compete with kids from private schools & kids who are from homes where both parents have degrees etc... Bit sad reading the thread to be honest...

I do not want to say anything bad about any school, but another thing to watch out for is that you should not always take the school's word for something. Or take it that their lack of mentioning something means it doesn't exist.

For example, when the time comes do you know what exams are expected for certain degree courses? Is you child being told they should do something less than they are capable of, just to make life easier for the school?

Have they told you about the Sutton trust or any other organisations or schemes for children from poorer backgrounds?

Did you know you as a parent can telephone admissions tutors for courses at universities to find out more for yourself?

This is all difficult and you just need to be tactful but firm. Someone I know was told he should just do CSEs not GCSEs (years ago now but the reasons were ethnic background/low, lazy, expectations on the part of the school). Their family insisted on GCEs, and they went to an absolutely top university.

But again, as other people said: love, security, family values, resilience ( being able to get up and try again if you fail), being able to work hard, loving something and following it up with enthusiasm all are the most important things. I would recommend this book:
www.amazon.co.uk/d/cka/Mindset-Updated-Changing-think-Fulfil-Your-Potential/147213995X/ref=pd_sim_14_9?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=1SCD3QQJ7CNYPW27P13S&tag=mumsnetforum-21

not GCSEs: I meant GCE (this was when there was a choice of either CSE or GCE)

Now maybe it might be harder for him to go away to one of the fanciest unis, but I know with his brains and determination he could.

Tatty Maybe he could, and some of the fanciest have generous bursaries to help.

Loads of good advice on this thread. Another one here whose parents left school at 16 (and didn't go much when they were meant to be there either )

BUT they read with me, encouraged me, and one massive thing I think, my Mum was always doing some evening class / teaching herself something / working through spelling books etc. She did an access course while I was doing my O levels then an accounting technician course so we'd sit together and do our homework.

Also, MN is a fantastic source of information - if your dc are choosing their options / if you're worried about their progress & feeling fobbed off / etc etc - just ask on here and you can get loads of really helpful advice.

I'd second what a previous poster said about correct grammar - make sure you use correct grammar yourself in speech and don't be shy about correcting your DCs if they start copying their friends' bad habits (they will).

I have a very bright colleague at work who always says "we was" instead of "we were". He clearly wasn't corrected by his parents or his teachers at school. Perhaps if he'd been to a better school then it would have been ironed out. Now his wife is a head-teacher (of an outstanding London comprehensive), and I sometimes wonder if she uses the same grammar - if so then it hasn't held her back, but if not then I do wonder why she doesn't correct him. It makes him sound less intelligent than he otherwise clearly is.

I'd second what a previous poster said about correct grammar
That's where masses of reading of the classics, and all the great children's bookscomes in, as it becomes more instinctive than anything. The grammar has inbuilt logic too which is why singing nursery rhymes and reading to babies and toddlers is so important and puts the children who have been listening to those things all their life at such an advantage.

Read books- the most important thing imho
Watch the news- aids critical thinking
Have high expectations

Agree about the importance of resilience.

Agree about the importance of resilience.

Well yes - it is the biggest word in education these days. And it is great if you have a resilient child. But how do you actually make a less resilient child resilient? In my experience (I have 1 very resilient, 1 pretty ok and 1 not at all), it is way harder to give that to a child than the "cultural capital" stuff.

I agree about reading, however, childrens' classics are not necessary. At times they can feel a world away from a modern child who cannot always relate to the characters.

Any well written book by a recognised author is fine. My DD didn't read any "classic" books but read high quality modern literature and also non fiction if she was interested in a particular topic. We loved nursery rhymes and poetry for children.

Now in her 20s, she has just told me that any spelling mistakes or poor grammar on an application form where she works is an immediate rejection - in the bin! Even if you have a first from Oxford - not that they know that because the university is hidden from the selection panel!

I agree about reading, however, childrens' classics are not necessary. At times they can feel a world away from a modern child who cannot always relate to the characters.

God, so true! I adored 101 Dalmations as a kid - loved it dearly. When I started reading it to DS1 I found myself having to edit out bits etc.

Any well written book by a recognised author is fine. My DD didn't read any "classic" books but read high quality modern literature and also non fiction if she was interested in a particular topic. We loved nursery rhymes and poetry for children.

Interestingly, the poetry resonated when novels didn't. For example mine adored Hilaire Belloc's rhymes but were unimpressed with Little Women/Island of the Blue Dolphins which I loved.

I agree about reading, however, childrens' classics are not necessary. At times they can feel a world away from a modern child who cannot always relate to the characters.

I don't even think the reading has to be from modern fiction authors either. My son hasn't "read" fiction for enjoyment since primary school. He's tried Walliams, Dahl, Harry Potter, etc., but just not interested and didn't get past the first few chapters. No, that's right, not a single book. He's begrudgingly read the few books insisted upon by his English teachers. But, having said all that, he's getting consistently A* grades in his school internal end of topic/year tests and forecast 8 or 9 grades in next years' Lang & Lit GCSE exams. His literacy is excellent because of all the non-fiction he reads, a lot of it via his ipad/laptop. He'll happily spend hours flicking through internet links to read about the latest expedition to Mars, or about his favourite footballers, and at the moment is fascinated about Brexit and the general election. A couple of months ago, we went for a short break to Berlin and he spent hours afterwards reading about the world wars, Hitler, the Berlin wall, etc. So, basically, he loves reading for factual information, but he just has no interest at all in the fiction side of things. Reading "anything" is better than nothing at all - if you have a child who isn't interested in one kind of reading, then try to engage them in other types. It really doesn't have to be fiction, either traditional nor contemporary.

And if your child isn't engaged with poetry, try to age-old trick of getting them to think about the lyrics of their favourite pop songs. After all, most song lyrics are poetry, but put to music. You can then get them to identify the various literary devices, such as lines that rhyme and those that don't, rhythm, repetition, and even construction such as couplets etc. They're far more likely to engage with the lyrics of a favourite song on a piece of paper in front of them than a page of Keats or Wordsworth. Then once you've established the fundamentals, you can then go onto "proper" poetry and you can concentrate on what they are saying rather than how they are saying it!

Both my parents left school at 15.
My mother has massive issues with literacy due to dyslexia ( her texts are freaking hilarious).

I ended up studying law at Oxbridge and did another post graduate degree in the states.

How? My mum in particular was very ambitious for me. And she didn't apologise for it.

A tiger mother for the Emassy Regal generation .

So one of my best pieces of advice is not to buy into modern middle class fluffy bunny parenting. Afraid of failure, hard graft and boredom.

Poor children will need a lot more steel behind them in order to play on the same field. It won't ever be level.

But if you build into them ambition, grit, stamina and resilience, they can make a very good fist of it.

Building resilience (not giving up when stuck) some ideas in learning situations: www.learningspy.co.uk/learning/sir-im-stuck/

General resilience - there's a debate about character education and whether you can teach it, but you can't get better at something without practice. Kids need to be not rescued when they find themselves in challenging situations. They forget their PE kit/lunch/homework? Don't automatically bring it in, let them deal with it. Their music lesson clashes with a maths test? Let them come up with a solution (ask their friend to swap? Sit the maths test at lunchtime? They might come up with something you haven't thought of, and if they say they can't think of a solution, try the strategies from the blog above). Friendship issues - don't leap in with suggestions. Obviously for big issues like bullying you might need to take control.

Model your methods. Brainstorm solving your own problems in front of them. Say things like 'I'm really anxious about this job interview coming up so I'm going to research on the internet/practice with Aunty Sue who does interviews/make sure my suit is laid out and I know where I'm going/go for a walk to calm down'.

There's also a lot at the moment about allowing kids to experience failure. Fear of failure is a big problem, especially among girls who tend towards perfectionism. Maybe learn a skill together with them and discuss how you feel about each stage as you do it. Knitting? Juggling? Playing a computer game? An issue you spot in kids with low resilience, apart from not starting something because they can't immediately see how to do it is 'rage-quitting'. Getting frustrated, slamming the thing down and walking away. They need to learn that failing to do something doesn't mean they're a failure, but that it's a natural part of learning how to do something that isn't trivially easy. They've got to pick themselves up, brush themselves off and have another go, maybe taking a different tack. Remind them of times when they did this and they were eventually successful. Practice doesn't have to make perfect, practice makes improvements and creates confidence, so long as you are practising the right way and not just bashing your head against a brick wall.

I just saw this on twitter: the difference between stoicism and resilience www.thejaneevans.com/stoicism-for-children-or-someone-to-listen/

Teach children to acknowledge their feelings and work around them, not to minimise them.

Brainstorm solving your own problems in front of them.

Exactly this, be open about your own challenges, failures, successes, etc. Discuss current issues in front of them. OH and I have actually "staged" discussions in front of our son so that he can feel part of the problem solving process (even when we've already discussed it and made decisions when he wasn't there). But then, we've always been open with him, right from an early age and not sheltered him at all. When he's faced difficulties, we've never let him simply walk away and give up - initially we told him his alternatives, but as he's grown up, we've helped him work out his own strategies. From being a "needy" emotional child, he's now on the cusp of being a resilient/responsible adult! We've frankly been amazed at how he has shrugged off some bad experiences and "just got on with it".

One thing that we've really encouraged him to be part of is DIY, housework and gardening etc, so nothing whatsoever to do with school and academia, so no "formal qualifications" required and something that anyone can do! When we've re-decorated a room, we've had him help us, so that he can see all the various stages we go through, i.e. the organisation/planning of emptying the room, the stripping to see the room at it's worst state, then the preparation of sanding/filling/undercoat, etc., to start the process of restoration, the planning of each stage (i.e. you can't sand when you've just painted), then to the wallpapering and final top paint coat, and finally to putting the furniture and "stuff" back in and to see the finished result. Being part of that highlights the importance of planning, how things get worse before they can get better, juggling different tasks in the right order, and finally the end result. It's also allowed him to see us deal with unforeseen serious problems by calm, logical thought, rather than throwing things about, shouting, arguing, etc.

Same with gardening. Every year, he sees the planning & preparation that goes in. Simple things like planting seeds in the trays at the right time, thinning out and re-potting at the right time, planting in the garden, etc. We really try to hammer home that good things take a lot of time, planning, preparation and organisation to happen. And to show that it's far more enjoyable to see a plant grown from a seed rather than just nip to the garden centre and buy a ready-grown one! Not to mention that a plant grown from seed costs a few pence rather than the few pounds a fully grown one costs, so you can grow a border full of plants for the price of a couple from a shop!

It's that kind of thing long term planning/organisation skills which we can then transfer over to his education, i.e. to show the value of keeping up to date with school work and a "little and often" approach to revision, rather than rely on last minute stressful cramming.

BadbadBunny

I agree with what you say, and not just for the reasons you state:
you have made it so the value of your DS's contribution to all your lives is not just from him being successful academically, but through the other day to day things you need as a family.

One danger with helping children do well at school is if they perceive their value to only lie in academic success and being the best. When they hit a place where there are lots of 'very bests' all together (A levels or university), or an eventual inevitable failure, it is nice if they already
value themselves outside these.

All you can do is be there for them. Make sure they have all the books they need like revision guides, the school will help you there if you ask. Make sure they have a quiet space to be able to work in and a PC. You can even hire a PC if you can't afford one. If a young child encourage them to read. You can get second hand books a plenty in charity shops. Learn together. Get your child to show you their work and get them to explain it. Just lots if encouragement will help them. My gdd is high achieved, her mum single parent on minimum wage and average intelligence and lots of love and emphasis on education worked!

Meant to add that education isn't all about having your head in books. A walk in the park or local woods on nature hunts. Learning about the world about them on a country walk, a visit to a beach and rockpooling or crab fishing great fun but learning about nature all the while. Gardening and growing things another good educational activity, playing games etc. Creative activities which are declining in schools with the funding crisis and narrowing of the curriculum is invaluable. Visiting museums (in London they are free). Zoos etc great stuff. None of it cost a lot of money. These are the type of things to grow an I quisitive mind which leads to great things, and don't worry, you have already bridged the gap by your willingness to help your child.

Ambition, grit, stamina and resilience - agree with previous poster and aiming for the highest grades and excellent manners (I don't mean grade As but personal best).

In the high flying corporate world I am in (salaries typically £100K+ and at least 1 in 2 private schooled), where I see the top do really well is Emotional IQ and having real grit and that utter self confidence and belief. The ability to deal with all kinds of the emotions and reactions - subtle and not - conflict, criticism etc is essential.

Excellent manners. Take your dcs to Michelin starred restaurant at least once and learn how to eat and what to drink from. I know not everyone can afford it but I would save up all year if I had to - just to learn to arrive a posh restaurant with whiteglove treatment and not feel intimidated.
A lot of networking and work discussions happen in naiice restaurants.

And particularly for those who aren't born and bred into it -
The ability to be almost, charmeleon like to adapt to the situation that you find yourself - be it at an awards social function, networking event, or corporate dinner where you can be talking to a Lord or be it at a local spit and sawdust pub - and not feel out of place or intimidated. So therefore - I would also say, ability to be friends with everyone. Not become everyone's best friends I mean but have something charming or engaging say upon first acquaintance.

Having come from the poorest and most deprived London schools to getting to the top - those are my observations and the small things like experiencing a top restaurant was something that astounded me for a while and really intimidated me and I wish I was exposed to it much earlier.

This is really interesting. I went to uni but this is not normal in my family. DH same background and he didn't go. We both work long hours and commute because we have to. This kind of input is hard to find time for and I worry about that.

And don't dismiss television. There are lots of fantastic kid's shows-and lots of adult ones that kids can watch. Watch things together so you can talk about them. Reading is important-but good telly is better than a "bad" book!

Take your dcs to Michelin starred restaurant at least once and learn how to eat and what to drink from. I know not everyone can afford it but I would save up all year if I had to - just to learn to arrive a posh restaurant with whiteglove treatment and not feel intimidated. If you want to do this Michelin starred restaurants often have good lunch deals on - well I mean better than their evening prices, chose carefully some are so stuffy and uptight you can hardly breathe.

Value education, stay involved (attend all parents evenings and engage with teachers) encourage punctuality and good attendance. Join the library, visit often, read to them and with them. Visit free museums, stay in touch with what topics they're studying (read up on those topics, get books out of the library).

Keep the love for learning alive (if you feel them resisting, don't push too hard, let them take the lead)

Help them stay organised with homework done, PE kits packed, correct stationery and equipment ready to learn.

Speak to them about the importance of a good education, express your desire for them to attend university.

They will succeed, with supportive parents they will reach their potential.