Is it just us struggling or is homework/family time balance gone to pot?

[StormySunshine]

My DS is 14 and since last year things have slowly but surely got really hard to balance anything to do together as a family or even just for him to have some free time. He leaves home around 7am and gets home after 5pm or twice a week 6pm due to extra-curricular activities. Then he has at least 2 homeworks that take 45mins to an hour Each plus often another one/two smaller ones. So apart from having a family meal together, not much time left for anything else. Then weekends - more and longer homeworks, coursework, etc, etc to a point where we can't often visit family and friends because taking almost a whole day off is a no-no! AIBU or is this just crazy for someone who's still a kid to do more working hours than me?!

I am at a loss as to why some schools, including some Grammar schools, have moved to a three year GCSE course

Our son's school does 3 year GCSE courses, but you can't drop until year 10, so basically everyone "starts" the GCSE course for most subjects in year 9. My son's best friend who's at a nearby "outstanding" state comp says they also start early but only for sciences and Maths.

The Physics teacher explained this to me as being due to the fast learning pace, as most of the years 7/8/9 curriculum is basically done in 2 years so, rather than going slower they "start" the GCSE work. He said some of it would have been done in years 7-9 anyway such as forces etc, so rather than doing half each topic at a lower level and then coming back to it in years 10/11 at a higher level, they just defer the GCSE stuff until year 9 onwards. The way he explained it made perfect sense - they're not actually spreading 2 years worth of work over 3, they're just re-arranging the entire 5 years. He also said it was beneficial for the kids to "experience" GCSE work in year 9 before they had to take their options - he said it drastically reduces the number of kids wanting to change options in the first few weeks of year 10.

What students need is to learn to study effectively.

I talked to DD (Y12 4 STEM subjects for A level) about this last night. She thinks that the emphasis on how much time is being spent is distracting.

In her view you need to do what you need to do. Sometimes it will be a lot, sometimes it will be less. Certainly in her subjects in the early days you need to get a firm grip on the topics. Fail to comprehend a topic fully and that can mean that topics which follow and build on the foundations will be inherently unstable.

League table position of course.

Or, of course, wanting the kids to get the best grades possible in a competitive world. Some kids may need A/A* for their future career. It's not all about league tables. When you have grossly over-subscribed FE courses and hundreds of applicants for a single job, then surely it's best to get the highest grade possible?

As my niece and nephew know to their cost, they got "good pass" grades at GCSE but despite meeting the entry criteria, couldn't even get a sniff near the college courses they wanted to do simply because there were so many applicants with A/A* grades wanting to do the same course. They feel badly let down by the education system which gave them false hope that "good passes" were good enough and they both know they could have done better had they been pushed more but the schools were happy that "good passes" was all they needed for "their" league table position".

Personally, I think its the comps that bother more about league tables than selective schools.

What students need is to learn to study effectively.

Which is why the "one size fits all" approach to education is utterly bonkers. Not just time spent, but also the type of work given.

Some kids could be accelerated and get their GCSEs 2/3 years earlier. Others need a much slower pace and would do better doing them 2/3 years later. But with the education system, that kind of thinking isn't allowed. You're pushed through the school, year by year, whether ready or not. If you're a high achiever, your just left twiddling your thumbs or having to help others instead, just biding your time.

Even though a pupil may have "got" a subject quickly, they're still forced to do endless worksheets, especially in Maths, doing the same type of question 10, 20 or even 30 times - if it's homework, they still have to do it even though they don't need to, otherwise they face sanctions. Utterly bonkers way of teaching, especially when the teacher has to spend valuable time marking it all right! Even worse if the school in question use the horrid "mymaths" app which makes you do an entire section again (different questions) even if you just got one question wrong - that app sucks hours out of your child's life for no good reason at all.

If education, at GCSE level especially, is called 'spade work' then I think that's the saddest concept of education I have ever heard.

I have 12 GCSE's, 5 A-Levels, BA, PGDip, MSc and about to start a PhD in clinical research. Not once in all my years of study have I thought 'I must put the spadework in'.

My DS1 isn't academic at all, he wants to be a gardener, there is no way I'm going to push him into doing 15 hours a week 'spade work' because we have socially constructed that this is the way education should be. He can learn at his own pace and volition and hopefully preserve his mental health. I asked him about this last night, mentioned the thread and amount of homework time and his response was 'where is my life meant to fit in with that schedule? I'm not swapping playing footy with my mates or hedge trimming or climbing for stressing over books.'

Fair enough I think.

^...the schools were happy that "good passes" was all they needed for "their" league table position".

Personally, I think its the comps that bother more about league tables than selective schools.^

Totally agree with this sentiment but the problem is that a Head's success is judged on the percentage A*-C at GCSE. This means that there can be a lot of push to get the marginal students over the line but those at the other ends of the spectrum as being definite pass material or definite fail material will be abandoned.

The scary thing for the pupils at the definitely fail end of the spectrum is that if their Head is a Surgeon they may well find themselves permanently excluded on quite spurious grounds. DD saw this happen in her GCSE year.

Terrific HBR article, GnomedePlume.

shame I did not say an education is spade work.

I said that in year 11, if you want good grades then for some of that time, you won't avoid putting the spade work in.

It's fine that your DS is not aiming for high grades. But some kids are.

That said, I think it's imperative that our DC learn that many tasks have a spade work aspect to them. Even the most exciting and creative. Getting through the spade work with good humour is a fantastic skill to possess.

I agree with Carl (wholeheartedly): spade work is unavoidable, and it isn't all bad - far from it. Mastering a lot of routine skills is a necessary part of modern life and trying to bypass the repetition that mastery of such skills requires is only likely to create shaky foundations and knowledge gaps that will prevent DC from moving on to higher level independent thinking..

Personally, I think its the comps that bother more about league tables than selective schools.

I don't agree. Some selective schools appear to be very focused on league tables. Have a read of this thread:

www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=39640

and this thread:

www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=47474

titchy my question was in the context of "If anything, school subjects are relatively easy and could be - ought to be taught in much less time to the vast majority of students." I have to admit, I wasn't aware that the majority of DCs got A or A* at GCSE and A Level, I thought that was only the case in the world of mumsnet.

Badbadbunny there is only one school in my area doing a 3 year GCSE course (introduced the year before last). I asked why they had chaned and was told it was due to the more challenging GCSEs with the 1-9 levels (this is a selective school).

Mumtrying - you mentioned grammar schools - it;s not an unreasonable assumption that grammar schools kids are pretty much A/Astar calibre.

Obviously the najority of kids won't get these grades, but thegrammar ones tend to.

titchy Thu 08-Dec-16 11:08:42 Mumtrying - you mentioned grammar schools

Yes, but only in in response to "its the comps that bother more about league tables than selective schools"

it;s not an unreasonable assumption that grammar schools kids are pretty much A/Astar calibre.

In which case a number of Grammar Schools are under performing e.g.

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/136884

62.4% of entries were graded A or A and 30% of entries were graded A

Bobochic I found the article both interesting and a little bit frightening. My DCs school has had a string of 'turnaround' Heads. The last was an archetypal Surgeon (former PE teacher, excluded swathes of lower set students). We have also had a number of inept Philosophers.

Sadly no Architects so, guess what, we are back in Special Measures.

Gnome - School leadership is complicated by the very long lead times necessary to make proper assessment of the impact of one head. I wish there were minimum tenures for heads.

DS(14) is at an independent school and has an hours commute each way. He either takes the school bus or a combination of the train/public bus but either way he is out of the house at 7:00 and not home until 5:00 at the earliest. He is also a club swimmer, volunteers at the club's swim school at the weekends, plays guitar and does fencing.

He's pretty busy but he is very good at breaking everything down into small efficient chunks. He knows what he can do on his commute- mostly revising and reading - and shuts himself off from everything around him. This generally means he only has 30-60 mins of homework to fit in at home. Ideally he wouldn't have such a long commute but if you were to ask him, there's no way he would switch from his current school.

I only went to high school p/t and most of my school work was done on an orchestra tour bus as we travelled across the US. As such, I've been able to help DS work out best to break down his homework.

I agree Bobochic. We are on our 4th Head since 2014. Unfortunately after a string of failures we tend to get 'end of the line' Heads. They come to us then leave the profession completely.

Ouch at four heads in two years!

Wow that is a long day. Ds is in Yr 7 he has some SEN. His day starts at 8.05 and back in at 3.40 so not too long as we live close by. He has to have some downtime before he starts his homework otherwise we end up with all sorts of dramas.

He can start his homework IF he knows exactly what he needs to do (which is rare) and it takes up to 40 mins per piece, DS's time. When he doesn't have a clue what he is doing I pretty much have to find out what it is, teach myself and then talk him through it so he can do it which can take up to 1+ hr per piece.

In all honesty I am close to contacting individual teachers and asking how long they would like him to spend on each piece and stopping at that because on a bad day we can still be sitting at the table when it turns 8pm which IMO is unhealthy, not to mention robbing other family members of their time with me.