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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Private school fees

190 replies

EllaBel · 27/02/2016 17:09

We can't afford them but we want to. How can it be done? Is it true that advertised fees are a 'guide' and that the true fees are established in conversation and schools can be open to this sort of case by case approach? We have four children. Sibling discounts are suggested but are they really applied to any great degree? How is 'middle class' (no trolling please I am generalising) England/Wales affording private schools?

OP posts:
NewLife4Me · 29/02/2016 15:48

mini

I think it more likely the OP vanished after starting a gf thread tbh.
But it may be me, because I had this feeling from the OP.

happygardening · 29/02/2016 17:04

"She was probably upset by all the sneering comments along the lines of 'dream on, peasant' by wealthy people on this thread whose kids are in private schools."
I'm not sure which comments you're referring too as I haven't read them all but the reality, not a "sneering comment" by the way but in the real world very few average families can afford to send 4 children to independent schools and pay the full fees, at the very least you talking pushing £55k+ PA most likely considerably more. This statement has nothing to do with "dream on peasants" I wish the OP the best of luck I genuinely hope she finds somewhere and is able to somehow reduce the fees.

TheBalefulGroke · 29/02/2016 18:00

No-one has sneered. Also no-one has said they have four children in fee-paying schools! As people have pointed out, there are lots of people whose families are paying those fees in any case.
I think a lot of people don't have a perfectly decent comprehensive school locally- that is the problem! It costs us far, far less to send our children fee-paying than it would have done to move into catchment of the decent school locally (house prices in catchment £700k upwards, cut-off 300 yards from school gate).

More likely journo than gf, I think.

jonesthegirl · 29/02/2016 20:15

I don't know whether I am a public enemy or not on here !

DD1 2nd year@ Cambridge ex Super selective state
DD2 Yr12 IB Super selective state
DD3 Yr 10 Normal grammar

DS yr 8 HFA Autistic @ modern school but school say he is to bright for them, but he has problems with behaviour in class.

It seems on here that parents who use grammar schools, are 'disliked' intensely. This is as opposed to the neutral stance taken against private school parents.

GinandJag · 29/02/2016 20:29

I've had five in private at one time.

merseyside · 29/02/2016 21:13

mini it seems odd that you feel the choices of other parents are somehow reflected onto you and your child.

My decision to go private isn't about your kid, or your school, or your choices, or how much better than you I think I am, or in fact any other reason involving you.

My choice is about me and my child and what's best for us. I find it weird you would be affronted by something which has absolutely nothing to do with you.

sendsummer · 29/02/2016 22:14

minifingers as a 'loving and concerned parent' I am sure you know whether the choice of state schools that you have work for your DCs. If so great, be happy. If not and you can't afford the option of moving house or private then you are certainly not alone. You may feel resentful of a capitalistic society in which income levels matter for choice but I am not sure how you can be surprised that almost all parents who value education will want to find the best options for their DCs. What decisions and relative sacrifices they make are family specific and up to them.

SAHDthatsall · 29/02/2016 22:31

mini wrote: I keep thinking 'can state education really be THAT BAD?', that people are willing to spend the cost of an entire house to avoid subjecting their children to it, even when their local school is perfectly decent comprehensive.

It's not a question necessarily of the state alternative being bad, but just wanting something better and being able to afford to buy it. Same goes for many things in life doesn't it?

On the face of it our local comp is great and termed 'outstanding' by the those that inspect it, but because I could afford choice I chose to pay for him to go to a school that:

  • has a pupil / teacher ratio half that of the comp
  • has textbooks
  • has great equipment not old stuff failing
  • has materials so son can make proper stuff in DT
  • has acres and acres of sports fields not one pitch
  • has 3G pitches for all weather games etc
  • will have played 20 odd football matches this term and last term not just a handful
  • I'm treated like a customer, I get email responses from teachers same day
etc etc etc.

So that's why, in the face of an 'outstanding' comp which someone told me on Sunday that people move house to be near so their children can go to I chose to buy something better. Cos I am lucky enough to be able to make that choice. Oh and it's the cost of a garage round here not a house!

Lurkedforever1 · 29/02/2016 22:38

mini take it you picked the best school available to you as your first choice? And will send your dc if it's offered? If so you aren't in a position to take the moral high ground about other parents doing the same. And fwiw if my local state schools had been good enough dd wouldn't be at private.

That massive chip on your shoulder is giving you some seriously odd ideas about the mindset of parents who opt for private.

Lightbulbon · 29/02/2016 22:40

I know of 2 large families in private school.

They are both professional sportspeople.

minifingerz · 29/02/2016 23:29

Lurked - my children go to a school that is part of the local community and has room for ALL types of children. As a family we are invested the school, and therefore invested in the community it serves. My children's school has many weaknesses and I don't know how it will work out. It's tough for them and they will have to work extra hard over their school life to compensate for these weaknesses. But then, why shouldn't they? Why shouldn't my children compete on the same terms as the vast majority of other UK children? They have a fair and equal chance to compete for university places and jobs with other dc's, many of whom will do extremely well by making the most they can from what they are given, and I expect the same from my children. I don't believe in academic, social and economic apartheid in education, and even if I had the money I would not pay to support a system which perpetuates it.

PrimalLass · 29/02/2016 23:38

The only people who don't skimp and scrape to afford fees are those with senior jobs in corporate finance. Or Russian oligarchs.

Depends where you live. Senior school fees here are 10-11k.

PrimalLass · 29/02/2016 23:48

How bright is bright enough for a bursary? Did anyone here get an entrance exam tutor to help with securing financial assistance (is that contradictory - can pay for a tutor so don't need help with fees?)

Out2pasture · 29/02/2016 23:53

anyone can look up the OP past post history.

every family is different and unique so the OP asking a vague question and then never coming back to fine tune the conversation doesn't help the OP's situation.
30% of the population goes to private each person with their own financial story makes for a lot of responses.

tbtc20 · 01/03/2016 06:22

primal we were told the bursary application was entirely independent of our son's scholarship application (and general application to the school).
People might think he's dead clever cos we got such a high bursary, but in fact it just means we are not very affluent! Not that we discuss the bursary with many people.

sendsummer · 01/03/2016 07:02

My children's school has many weaknesses and I don't know how it will work out. It's tough for them and they will have to work extra hard over their school life to compensate for these weaknesses
minifingerz from my experience DCs at academic private schools or grammar schools work rather hard to make the most of what they have been given particularly by the time they get to sixth form where self motivated independent study is part of the norm.
It would be tough indeed for your DCs if they were working even harder as the lack of time for any other activity would mean a rather narrow joyless life for them. Hopefully this is not what you are expecting from them. If your DCs' schools are recognised as weak then quite rightly that will be taken into account at university admissions.

AnotherNewt · 01/03/2016 07:09

The interplay between bursaries and scholarships varies between schools.

Some do require the candidates for a means-tested award to be of scholarship level (whether academic or subject specific), but some (IME the majority) do not. You need to find out from the specific school which camp they fall in to and, if not tidily one or the other, then establish what it is they do look for.

PrimalLass · 01/03/2016 07:23

primal we were told the bursary application was entirely independent of our son's scholarship application (and general application to the school).

Thank you. The school we are looking at makes it clear that financial assistance is linked to the entrance exam.

MumTryingHerBest · 01/03/2016 07:55

sendsummer - If your DCs' schools are recognised as weak then quite rightly that will be taken into account at university admissions.

In an ideal world. However, it's not quite that simple. Plarticularly if the parents and children at that school are compensating for what the school lacks.

Smoothfoxdog · 01/03/2016 08:17

This thread makes me really angry...people should not be judged for sending their children private or otherwise - it's a personal decision. I have four children, eldest private, dd2 about to start, youngest two in state primary. Luckily 3-4 year gaps in age. Eldest daughter started in state secondary but is was a disaster due to bullying. No doubt dd2 would have been ok in state, but I will not give one sibling an educational advantage over the other, so they will all go private for secondary.
How do we afford it? Fees are 11k p.a...less extras than state school. Uniform lasts forever and can be handed down. Max 2 at secondary per year = £22k. Our income is less than £65k. I am going back to work and hope to clear £2k per month after tax. Youngest about to start school so no childcare. Older kids will hold fort after school till I get home. 10 year old car...cheap holidays...no big spends clothes wise, primark all the way! Everybody happy, low cost extra curricular activities. It is just about doable with 4.

maybebabybee · 01/03/2016 08:30

people should not be judged for sending their children private or otherwise - it's a personal decision

I totally disagree. It's a small personal decision that feeds into a wider issue of social inequality which in this country is an utter disgrace. By all means make that personal choice for your DC - you have that freedom - but don't try and paint it as offensive that other people don't agree. It isn't. I don't agree with private schools full stop. I don't think they should exist.

I do not know what the solution is but the first and most obvious thing to do would be to abolish the charitable status of private schools so they pay taxes like any other business.

Not that that will ever happen in the UK as basically everyone in charge has been to a fee paying school.

sendsummer · 01/03/2016 08:37

Mumtryingherbest every parent who recognises the value of education is compensating in some way for a state run education with finite (sometimes dwindling) financial resources and a limited pool of good managers and teachers. Some compensate by paying fees as well as tax (and try to make the best choice with their money), some compensate by out of school extras and /or putting in the time themselves (if they have it and are capable). Others take the risk and effort to try for bursaries. Some families strike lucky with their state options or plan ahead for good options with sacrifices in housing. The universities also try to compensate for candidates with sufficient potential but cannot cover basics with their students so have to select accordingly.

SAHDthatsall · 01/03/2016 08:48

I do not know what the solution is but the first and most obvious thing to do would be to abolish the charitable status of private schools so they pay taxes like any other business.

Yes totally agree with that! It's about time someone said it!

So when the charitable status is removed the schools can stop allowing the community to use the facilities and stop handing out Bursaries to the riff-raff and just allow those who can afford it to pay to go to the school and not have to subsidise poor people that want to eat at the Michelin starred restaurant but can only afford McDonalds!

minifingerz · 01/03/2016 08:49

It's a personal decision.... which perpetuates an unfair and elitist system, and has a massive cultural impact. this article compares it to the Indian caste system in its impact on society.

It's unfair. Just because it benefits YOUR child that doesn't make it tolerable or just.

Penthouseandpavement · 01/03/2016 08:51

I have namechanged to give a more full answer here to OPs original question.

We are putting 4 through private secondary, although due to age gap maximum strain is 3 at once for 4 years. These are London day schools where fees are close to £6k per term each without extras. I expect to pay £19k per term this year, rising to £20k next year.

We are not rich, no inheritance, no grandparents paying, no city bonuses. One full time professional salary (just into 6 figures), one part time salary around £20k.

We can do it because we have always planned and worked towards this from the early days of our marriage. In our early careers we always lived well within means and saved all spare cash to pay off the mortgage. Once established in house number two we continued to save as much as possible. When we could have afforded it, instead of buying a bigger house we stayed put and bought a BTL which could be sold if we need the cash. The mortgages are both low tracker rates secured just as our first child went into secondary, and just before interest rates plummeted- this has made a massive difference to us.

We kept extra curricular expenses to a minimum- eg taught all dc's to swim ourselves, group music lessons rather than individual. Family meals out are a treat rather than a regular thing etc.

We are not mean - just sensible and careful with our money, and I keep a detailed record of finances and outgoings to keep me sane. We can cover pretty much two sets out of income with the balance from savings, and the savings shouldn't run out before we are done.

So this is how we have done it - very long term financial planning some good luck.