Private school fees

[EllaBel]

We can't afford them but we want to. How can it be done? Is it true that advertised fees are a 'guide' and that the true fees are established in conversation and schools can be open to this sort of case by case approach? We have four children. Sibling discounts are suggested but are they really applied to any great degree? How is 'middle class' (no trolling please I am generalising) England/Wales affording private schools?

I agree with grammar/private school cross over, its not just accounting for extra tuition fees but also increased house prices in the area. Apparently 20% of all grammar schools in England are in Buckinghamshire & Kent so not really catering for the lower income areas/population.

MumTryingHerBest the according to the annual accounts which we are sent the fees don't cover the cost of running the school, other money is generated through assets, donations, other enterprises etc. They are not broken down sufficiently to detail if the cost of staff accompanying boys away is paid for by the school or parents of the boys going but I think £650 (sometimes less) for a week away in Europe (often to some of the most expenses cities) including accommodation (hotels) breakfast and evening meal (in restaurants), flights at sensible times of the day out of major airports, admission into numerous museums theatre etc, and transport whilst away is jolly reasonable.

Mondrian - not all of Kent is wealthy. It's not only 'disgusted of Tunbridge Wells'. Thanet and Medway are extremely deprived and have a selective system.

Many grammars are changing their admissons criteria to reserve a % (typically 20%) for pupil premium students. This seems to be working well in Birmingham- another major grammar region and hardly the posh south. Some Kent grammars are now starting to follow suit. I am fed up personally with DD's achievements being bashed by other people as she has the opportunity to attend a grammar. Many I later find their DCs sat the test and didn't pass rather than it being a morale stance.

The ones that have the biggest bursary pots tend to be boarding schools ime.

Actually 20% is just the % of grammar schools in Kent vs all of England (33 vs 164), whilst it only accounts for just over 2/1000th of UK population. I am sure there are pockets of low income in Kent but its a far cry from North East & majority of its grammer schools are spread over the high income (expensive) areas.

Also, ime a school isn't always looking for an academic child but also one who is a good citizen and will contribute to the school community in that way.

My daughter is at a girls boarding school as a day student. She has an art scholarship and also a bursary. She's bright but not a genius and is a very talented artist but I personally think the school wanted her because they like her as a person.

• grammar

Realistically only about 30% of pupils require a academic 'private/grammar type curriculum'.

This point was mad by the leader of Knowsley education committee when answering why they are the worst authority in England. He stated that an EBAC traditional academic education was not working for over 70% of its pupils.

There is a similar story all over many northern cities and obviously Thanet ,isle of sheppey and Jaywick Clacton.

A vocational approach to education is required in such areas

It is a silly idea to and not feasible to think that most grammar school parents can afford private schools !.

To comfortably afford a private day school for just 1 child a family income of around £80-100k is required.

That means both parents or (1 high earner) have to be earning twice the average wage in the United Kingdom.

Also bearing in mind that a family income of £100K pa puts you comfortably in the top 10% of UK families. 7% of pupils are educated privately, the vast majority of private pupils are obviously coming from that group.

I went to private schools. Now my boarding school friends have children but only half or so are using private schools - and in every case either grandparents are paying fees or the family have a tiny mortgage as "our parents helped with the deposit" means £200k rather than £2k!

Luckily I live in an aspirational part of London where parents encourage children to learn and the secondaries are large enough to include several grammar-level sets. Though have to admit am intrigued by those ads in the newspapers for private London day schools which offer up to free places...

"A vocational approach is required in such areas"
I'm unconvinced that not being able to get five passes at GCSE makes you a suitable candidate to become say a plumber or electrician.
Having recently had a very unfortunate and potentially life threatening experience of a highly recommended Corgi gas registered engineer who in retrospect I doubt had a higher IQ than my dog I'm very much coming to the conclusion that these so called vocational qualification require as much initiative intelligence lateral thinking and ingenuity as many of the so called professions. And if you're a plumber electrician etc who's thinking of running your own successful business you definitely need intelligence lateral thinking initiative and ingenuity in spades.

A City salary and a relatively small mortgage is paying for 2 sets of day fees here. We paid the first couple of years from net income and now have the next few years put away which have come from annual bonuses. No family help here and we're still having a great standard of living and can manage a couple of foreign holidays a year, newish cars, extra curricular activities, eating out but we haven't moved or extended which we would have done if we weren't paying fees.

What was the point of that post hurray?

new thanks for clarifying.

For what it is worth, and forgive me if I am repeating other posters' response, but have you considered finding a super duper state school, and just moving into that catchment area? I know people with less children that do that, and it has worked well for them. Certainly some state schools in London are considered on par with some independent schools.

I think class is nowadays defined by education and is as follows

"upper class" private school
"upper class fallen on hard times" private school bursary
"aspiring upper class" private school bursary
"middle class" grammar school, high performing comprehensive
everyone else (note some everyone elses will get into grammar and high performing comprehensives)

Therefore if you are anything to do with private school that makes you upper rather than middle class. People are reluctant to use 'upper class' because they don't want to face facts.

HocusCrocus Google social class and academic achievement.

I have a talented child and several private schools, including day and boarding, offered high value scholarships and bursaries. One of these was a 100% scholarship, not means tested.
For this, the child needs to be very talented, and then you need to apply to a school that is particularly interested in the thing that your child is very talented at. The child probably needs to be strong academically too.
Your child will want to go to that kind of school, as they will be passionate about their activity, so it's a win win.

Ooh, am interested in the "class" comment. Would never, ever class myself as "upper class" - one DD, one set of school fees. I always thought the upper classes were the landed gentry and royalty (which I am most definitely not). You learn something new every day ... :)

I think any family who has an income of over e.g £150k pa if comparing themselves with a family in 'relative' or education/income poverty in Rochdale is indeed of higher socio economic group.

As for comparing money with 'class' well you cannot get 'lower class' individuals then some premiership footballers !.

I completely disagree with eyebrowse's class analysis.
There is only one upper class family at my children's school (were two, however the other family's children went off to board). The school would not survive unless most people paid full fees, and I believe the proportion of pupils with bursary/fee support is around 10% only.
Most of the school is solid middle-middle class, with some umc, and some lmc, and a couple of families traditional wc background.
Many families from outside the British class system, but v mc for their countries of origin. (Academics, doctors, lawyers etc)

Love the way the OP came back, BTW.

No surprise.

She was probably upset by all the sneering comments along the lines of 'dream on, peasant' by wealthy people on this thread whose kids are in private schools.

As a loving and concerned parent of a state educated child, it's always a humbling experience to see the extreme financial lengths to which people will go to make sure that their child isn't educated in the same way that your child is. I keep thinking 'can state education really be THAT BAD?', that people are willing to spend the cost of an entire house to avoid subjecting their children to it, even when their local school is perfectly decent comprehensive.