Private school fees

[EllaBel]

We can't afford them but we want to. How can it be done? Is it true that advertised fees are a 'guide' and that the true fees are established in conversation and schools can be open to this sort of case by case approach? We have four children. Sibling discounts are suggested but are they really applied to any great degree? How is 'middle class' (no trolling please I am generalising) England/Wales affording private schools?

Of the families I know with 4 DC going private:
The fathers (and sometimes mothers too) are City lawyers on £600per hour.
Or have top jobs with international finance companies and banks.
Or their children dipped in and out of state and private (state primary, state 6th form, DC only in private from 11-16yrs)
Or some are on scolarships/ one or two got into freee super selective grammars and the others went private.
Or they teach at the school.
Or wealthy family chip in a substantial amount.

I work at a private school and there is no negotiation on fees. Staff get 50%, 1 sibling 5%, second sibling 7.5%, third sibling I don't know as there aren't any. There are bursaries and scholarships available but these only approximate a tiny % of total fees.

My friend has two sons at Harrow. I nearly passed out when he told me what it cost!!!!

Some secondary scholarships can be 50% off
Some schools will offer a bursary too if your income is under £75K
But you need super bright child....

Very few scholarships are now 50%. Most discounts are bursaries and are means tested. Some children get both.

And don't get me on the subject of the fact that to pay £20k of school fees you have to earn typically £30k to pay for the fees depending on your tax threshold. Not that many will be on lower rate who can actually afford the fees unless like some mums I knew who worked just to pay for a set of fees and their entire salary went on the fees.

Yes - if you are in the 50% tax bracket you need to earn double the amount of fees. Ouch.

I only know 1 family with 4 in private schools ranging from pre prep to senior, and the mum doesn't work, and they have live in staff in their £3m house. They go skiing, have at least 2 sunny holidays, have a spare 4x4 (just in case), and the eldest 3 do music, gym, and tons of other stuff. I don't think I can even imagine what the Dad's pay check must be. I'm pretty sure the money is self made and not family money. Oh, and they're lovely people too!!!
That's how you afford 4 in private school!!!!

Can you afford to pay 16/17 grand every 3-4 months? If not you can't afford it. Private schools are struggling. They can give sibling discount and a few scholarships but they don't negotiate fees.

newlife
We qualified for a 75% bursary for our son for 6th form. We are in no way very poor.
We have a reasonable income, good savings, own our home, have modest holidays and run one modest crappy car, have one other child.

We could not have afforded it w/o bursary, or using our assets, but we are not poor.
The shortfall is made up by a small inheritance and there are other costs which are more due to where he is (lunches, transport and music fees).

Obviously I realise there are kids there whose yearly fees are probably paid by some banker annual bonus, but that's a different world to what I live in!

This is proof we need more grammar schools to be available , for the vast majority of parents who can't afford 15K Day or 30K Boarding fees .

There are a large number of posters on here, who believe that because the state cannot provide a 'private' school type education for everybody then nobody should have it.

Grammar schools at least give some children half a chance !

I really don't care if the majority of grammar school children are from 'middle class/ income' families. So what if FSM intake are low .

A large number of grammar school parents can't afford private schools yet their children need/deserve that type of education.

"This is proof we need more grammar schools to be available"

Why not good comprehensive schools instead? Why just grammar schools?

DD's non selective comprehensive school regularly achieves over 70% A* - C GCSEs including English and maths, and is in the top 10% of all state education for A levels.

tbtc

I'm sorry I should have worded it better.
Dd fees are paid by gov scheme, we pay a very small amount and she boards.
I think we sound about the same as you tbh and aren't poor compared to many.
However, compared to somebody who could afford multiple or even one set of fees we are poor.
Hence, I said poor.

jones could you please explain why some children deserve that type of education, but not others?
Poor people are undeserving? (from your FSM comment)

Fees are not necessarily set in stone. It depends on how much the school thinks it would benefit from having your child on the roll.

We managed to negotiate a discount for DD when she was about to enter the 6th form (year 12). The private school she was attending was increasing its age range and DD was in the first group of Yr 11s to stay on into Yr 12.

We knew that the first 6th form cohort was very small and the school was keen for Yr 11 girls to stay on for another 2 years. DD wanted to stay, so we asked the headmistress for a 25% discount and she agreed with no quibble!

So, my advice is to find a school that is about to or has recently embarked on a new venture, such as a single sex school that has recently gone co-ed or a prep school that has opened a pre-prep or a senior section. If one fits your situation (eg if you have daughters, go to a boys school that has just gone co-ed or if you have boys, vice versa; or if yours are approaching the end of primary school, find a school that is branching out into the senior years).

Depends if you want to be a Guinea pig though, 80s Mum. One of the advantages of a private education is the breadth on offer. Small numbers is likely to result in a limited curriculum, low level sporting achievement and lack of high quality extra curricular such as music and drama due to low numbers. Yes, it can be a good idea if you are desperate to save money but it cannot work for 4 children, surely?

It would be interesting to know where the teachers are going to come from to teach in any new grammar schools. From the existing comprehensive schools, presumably. So the position for the children not at the grammar schools just gets worse. If you cannot afford a private education, why should the parents of the children at comprehensives pay tax to educate the few at new grammar schools thereby worsening the position for the majority of their own children? If you want private, pay for it. If you cannot afford it, don't expect others to pay for an "enhanced" state system for people who are already better off!

80smum, that is a very specific situation - a year 12 where they don't want to lose kids. It really doesn't mean that a family with say a rising 8 year old and 3 others behind her could find a school willing to take her and then the siblings on a reduced/negotiated rate. and if they did (outside of a bursary) then the school itself is probably not that great.

If the OP was going to research looking for a private school on the edge which might offer discounts because they need girls/boys/12 year olds/musicians, she'd honestly be better off researching the best non private option instead.

Over the years I've always been surprised at the number of families at the various boarding schools my DS's have attended who have four and even five children in independent boarding schools. One family the father (SAHM) always seems very smiley and happy! But it's pretty obvious when you go to these family's houses and hear about their lifestyles that they are exceedingly wealthy. If your stumping up £160k+ PA in school fees you've likely to be in a very high paid job and or have very significant assets. You could I guess get a scholarship/bursary but you would be very lucky to get 4, and in many cases scholarships have very little financial reward attached and you would then have to apply for a bursary. But many school don't offer very substantial ones or only to a small number and then often only those who came top in their scholarship exams. A relatively small number schools do offer very generous bursaries to non scholars Christs Hospital being the most obvious one but competition for places is very fierce and I've heard maybe incorrectly that even they aren't as generous as the used to be and are trying to attract more ful fee paying pupils.
If you're were interested in trying for a bursary you would probably be best to start another thread specifically about this stating your area and children's age etc. and also I suspect would need to be prepared to consider boarding. There is no guarantee your DC's would get a bursary, and many schools expect your DC to sit entrance exams etc before giving you any idea of any available financial assistance that might be on offer. Every academic year two or three parents start threads on here about not getting a large enough bursary to send their DC to X despite having spent time looking at the school (and loving it) receiving lots of positive comments from the head, doing very well in entrance exams and offering lots of other stuff; county cricket player grade 8 flugalhorn at 9 years old and Olympic tiddlywinks champion. They seemed to be pretty convinced that a substantial bursary was a done deal and were very disappointed when they discovered it wasn't and that they couldn't take up the much wanted place as was their DC.

Baleful I was just composing a similar reply in my head and you've put it so beautifully - thanks

Jones I'm no expert on grammar schools but I understand that they take those with sufficent resources and parental interest to tutor extensively the top 30% so what happens to the other 70% do they not need/deserve the type of broad education that some independent schools offer to even those not in this 30%? Or perhaps it would be better for state comprehensive education to be looked at and improved and massive differences between school X and Y in the same LA addressed.

We have three at / will be at private prep. We negotiated a discount and it seems like we aren't the only ones who did, we aren't in London though or even the south east so I wonder if it's more "the done thing" here than where schools have very large waiting lists.

We are mainly affording it by FIL paying although we only have dd there at the moment and that definitely won't last forever so we are trying to pay down the mortgage substantially so we have more money to spare when we take over.

On the contrary to others saying the extras are more I have actually found it to be cheaper in some respects - all clubs and extra curriculars are included so I don't need to pay out for swimming / drama etc anymore. Also after school club and trips within the school day (not residentials).
The uniform is definitely more expensive though yes.

Our "extras" bil for DS2 is usually between £400-£600 a term but we pay for every piece of paper, pen text book and being a boarding school this includes toiletries dry cleaning suits etc. Trips away and day trips are IME significantly cheaper than those my DS1 was offered when he was at our local comp. Letters/emails we receive about them frequently mention things like "keeping costs to a minimum" etc, we are I'm assuming paying for staff accommodation etc but you wouldn't think this when you look at what's being charged, I couldn't find the sort of trips my DS has for what we're being charged, leaving me frequently wondering if it's being subsidised.
Nearly all the independent schools my DS's have attended run 2nd hand uniform shops which for the organised (I'm not) are a perfectly acceptable and easy way of acquiring uniform especially in the early years when children are growing quickly. You can also sell uniform this way.

jonesthegirl Sat 27-Feb-16 23:10:05 A large number of grammar school parents can't afford private schools.

I would very much like to know what data you have used to support this claim.

There is a fairly noticeable cross over between the state selectives and privates in my area.

Coming across parents who are sitting on both a selective private and a selective state place after national offers day is far from rare.

Coming across parents who chose to send their DCs to a private secondary school when they failed to get into a state selective is not particularly rare either.

happygardening Does the school receive money from anywhere other than fees?