Independent school visit- DD put off by pupils

[DrTinkle]

We went to a really great school today which will offer DD so many opportunities, we did the tour and she met the teachers and was able to correctly do all the tasks they asked her to have a go at. She is at a state school, is a very high performer and well liked. The school we looked at is academically selective and we are advised DD will get in.

So far so good but she was put off as the pupils doing the tour were very nice but over confident, precocious and, well, a bit odd. One girl was stealth boasting that she was so disappointed to only get an A rather than A* in her worst subject at end of year tests and D found the whole attitude off putting. Their over confidence just felt sort of at odds with our working class ways- does that make sense?

Thought perhaps the precocious ones had been pulled out to impress parents and reassured DD that there will be a more normal spread of people day to day. Have emailed to see if we can visit on a normal day. None of us went to private selective type school, do you think there is there a chance DD just won't fit in?

Yes. There is a chance DD will just not fit in.

There's also a chance she'll turn out like that herself, and it'll annoy you.

I don't think the girl would have been stealth boasting, I expect she is just a young teenager who was disappointed with her grade. If you'd been shown round by a child who couldn't answer any of your questions would you have wondered why you'd bother to pay school fees?

From my experience all the children in a year have to do one open day and then another year will show people round at another open day. My dcs have all had to show potential parents round, it's usually compulsory.
There are loads of first time buyers at day schools, possibly not at schools like Radley or Ampleforth but if you are looking at a London school the chances are pretty high that 30-50% of parents went to state schools.

If your DD doesn't like the atmosphere, then there is a chance that she will not thrive there.

But a I think you're very wise to try to see it again, rather than base your decision on the manner of one pupil on one day.

I'm not sure what 'working class ways' you might mean, but if they include diligence, fair play etc then they also transcend perceived barriers and will be no problem whatsoever. But (and I mean this nicely) if you actually look down on the other classes for some reason, then there might be difficulties fitting in anywhere.

Of course they will have chosen the most confident pupils to show you around and there will be a wider mix of personalities within the school.

Ds goes to an independent school and has never been asked to help out at Open Evenings - he had ASD and weak social skills, but he's very happy there and it's absolutely the right place for him.

Besides, kids do sometimes just come out with random comments that they think sound impressive. I work in a state school and try and pick the most suitable pupils to show the school off for our Open Evening but you can't control everything that comes out of their mouths!

They were just a bit too much, if that makes sense. Very nice and polite and helpful. But it all felt a bit...boasty. I dunno, our identity is all a bit self deprecating humour and they just did not have that. I don't want to be horrid, they were very nice but just very, very different from us.

I'd also like to know what you mean by working class ways.

You say your DD was put off by these girls - but it does sound as if you also felt uncomfortable with them.

It is always tricky when doing tours . Our first one was off putting because the guides were something of a mismatch ( young boarders) so couldn't really tell us about much , and often they include first years who aren't the most experienced. Ds took a tour at his school today with two potential families, neither of which could tell him what they might particularly want to focus on, so made it hard for him to advise them and take the most appropriate route. We got a better feel by going back for a private one on another day. Don't be put off by one child who may well have struggled to say the right thing.

We also went to the state school, they also had their helpful, impressive pupils helping, many of whom were middle class I suspect. So I'm not sure it's a class thing necessarily, more an independent school thing. They were just, I dunno, more normal. Shame the school itself was much less impressive.

Gruach I honestly didn't show I was put off by them, I said to DD how nice they were but to be honest I was put off by them. It's just an over confidence thing. Thinking about it I've seen it before in some adults who went to independents. Of course they're young teens, ego centric and all that and they were very nice. Just...odd.

My boys are at a mixed independent selective day school which suits them very well. We were massively put off by the local boys independent super selective which was just as you describe. I'm sure had we sent them there they would have been ok. Certainly they would have been academically fine, they are both at the top of their year. But we kept looking and maybe you need to do the same. Gut feel is important in choosing a school, I think.

I just couldn't see (and didn't want to see) my boys turning out like that. And I'm as middle class as they come.

This was the sort of views my parents had of the local private school and its kids when I was 11. I also felt uncomfortable with the school and kids as I was more like my parents and less like its pupils.

I ended up going to the local comp and hated it. It was not cool to be clever and I'd have been miles better off learning how to be confidently clever.

This may not be the school for you and your DD but (as a warning from my own personal experience) a) don't push your prejudices on to her b) don't let your principles be more important than what's right for your DD.

Surely during a tour the most confident and achieving students will have been chosen, they were also probably coached to say certain impressive things to prospective parents.

Could your dd spend a taster day there to get a proper feel for the place?

My eldest three went to state until 13 then private. They struggled a little with it at first before realizing, after about a week, actually, it was their problem and prejudice, that being over confident is better than being under confident and that the kids were really nice and just had lots of ambition. Maybe that girl wasn't stealth boasting, maybe she was genuinely disappointed.

They aren't narcissists or anything , they just realize how much of a difference attitude can make in your success now. There is nothing wrong with being confident. They also aren't all like that, it varies, my DC (now all at private) all have a self deprecating humor at times and their friends have a wide range of personalities and levels of confidence, they also come from a very wide range of backgrounds.

I would send her for a proper tester day, open days/official tours never give you a really accurate snapshot of a school.

At dc school they aren't coached for an open day nor necessarily the most academic/sporty/confident , just a random selection of children from certain age groups with rest of pupils involved in extra curricular and subject based activities. Some guides will simply be better than others but I would recommend a visit on normal day to anyone considering it anyway. If you have a particular line you want to follow up ask for a guide who will be able to answer your questions.

I've recently been round two selective independent schools (amidst a ton of state secondaries) and their were some precocious kids fielded at all of them. But I can relate to what you are saying. There was definitely an air of developing a superior sense of self-worth at one of the indies. Thrown into sharp contrast by a much more earnest vibe about the kids at the other.

Do you know anyone else who's kids go there?

whose

OP I do hope you will be visiting other independent schools for comparison. (It's never a good idea to choose from just one.)

If pupils at other similar schools seem less odd then perhaps your assessment is justified. If, on the other hand, all the pupils are like these - then it's probably you ...

Do you have more than one independent option in your area? Each independent school is different and attracts a slightly different clientele.

Also, I assume your DD is in yr5 at the moment. They change a lot between now and January yr6 when they take the test. What intimidates them now, may seem just right in 18 months time as they grow in confidence in their own abilities.

This is interesting DrTinkle - my DGD is at a small all girls independent day school (only about 400 girls in the school) She didn't want to go private as she thought it was "snobby" but her mom (my DIL) was not having her going to the local comp, and she didn't pass the 11+ to get into the grammar (where her mom went) They thought of moving house to get in the catchment area for better state secondaries but left it all too late, so independent school it was.

She started in Yr 7 and has now just started Year 11. I was really worried that she wouldn't fit in (both parents primary school teachers) but from working class backgrounds. I think (as far as I can recall) she was ok at the open day, and liked the girls who showed them round. However she was the only girl from her primary going to this school, and didn't know anyone. She talked about "looking for girls on the bus who looked nice" but I had already sussed out that these girls wouldn't be on the bus - they would be driven, and I was right about that. In fact there is only 1 other girl in her year who catches the bus home - all the others either live within walking distance or are picked up by parents. The 6th formers mostly have their own cars and special car park!

My other worry was that most of the girls would have been at the junior part of the school (Yrs 1 - 6) and so would know each other and friendships firmly established, and again that was the case!

But DGD seemed to settle very quickly and gained so much in confidence as she was always really shy and wouldn't go to birthday parties/tea with kids until Yr 6 at primary and then she wasn't keen. But right from the start she made friends with a couple of girls who were new to the school, though one left at the end of the first term which was a blow. She was invited to sleep overs and parties and seemed to thrive. BUT all the girls (with one exception) come from very wealthy families (it's a very affluent catchment area) DGD lives on the "wrong side of the tracks" though in a perfectly nice 4 bedroomed house. She goes to their houses, and some are those massive places behind gates, some have fields and a wood at the back, and there are ponies in the paddock - you get the picture! One of her friends has a house with 15 bedrooms! DGD doesn't invite girls back to hers very often - maybe if they are going to a gig or something, but not just for sleepovers and I'm sure this is because of the difference in the houses.

I've talked with her a lot about these girls, and she admits that they all talk "posh" (she doesn't) and says "the school won't change me" - in fact it's a bit of a thing with her and I suspect she goes too far the other way sometimes. The other thing is holidays - DGD doesn't have a normal teenage life because all the girls go on holidays whenever school breaks up - ski-ing in the winter and holiday villas in the Med in the summer and all over the place. She gets a holiday but it's usually Wales and a trip to Ireland where we have relatives. She says the girls don't say "Are you going on holiday" they say "where are you going on holiday?" She says "nan they don't brag about it at all and they're embarrassed if anyone thinks they're "posh" or "bratty" - I think she's right - they don't brag because it's just normal life to them, it's what they've always known and they know no different. I remember seeing a Christmas card one girl sent at the end of the first autumn term saying "Where are you spending Christmas, I'm going to the USA and Sweden." Yeah right!

BUT here's the thing DGD is totally ok about all this, and has her feet firmly planted on the floor. She laughs about them saying "Oh I get so bored with staying in our villa - so we're only there for 2 weeks before we go to XY or Z country." She has a nice group of friends though is friendly with most of her year group, although they are all split up now as it's GCSE year. And she has thrived, without a doubt. She's having opportunities she would never had at a state school - she's very into drama and they have their own theatre, dance studio, swimming pool, hockey pitches, tennis courts etc and acres of grassy areas. There are lots of lunch time clubs that she enjoys, and all in all it's been the right choice for her. Academically she is doing very well but is conscientious about her work and revision and it pays off - plus there were only 11 girls in the form before they split up for their different options.

The plan was always that she would leave at 16 and go to 6th form college (there's a very good one near to the school as it happens) but she really wants to stay on into the 6th form and so her parents are continuing to make the necessary sacrifices to enable her to stay on. I would have preferred that she left and mixed with "ordinary kids" but she wants to stay with her friends and thinks she will get better A level grades.

Having said all that I don't agree with private education but it wasn't for me to make my feelings known. I just wish all kids could have the same privileges. Oh yes one more thing, I think it was in Yr 8 a letter came giving details of a short trip to France, stressing that this was not a holiday but was part of the curriculum and the charge was £500. So it was compulsory. There will be more trips as she moves up the school and happily I am in a position to help but this needs to be borne in mind, as a girl could feel very left out if she wasn't able to go on the "holiday" trips.

I've met some of her friends and they seem really nice girls - confident yes, talking posh - yes, friendly - yes. DGD said to me recently "They're just ordinary kids like me, it's just that their parents have got good jobs."

Not sure whether this will help the OP or not.

Yes that's exactly it merylstrop - superior self worth. That was the vibe they were giving off. It was annoying.

DrTinkle I know exactly the attitude you mean.

I remember in my early 20s visiting a friend who was at Cambridge. Her friend showed us around the chapel at King's College and showed us a Ruben's painting in there. She explained that it had been damaged by someone scratching 'IRA' on it.

I asked if they knew who had defaced it (was wondering if they were caught and what punishment resulted) and she replied sanctimoniously "well it wasn't the artist".

No SHIT sherlock.

Like I was too thick to work out that there were almost hundreds of years between the artist doing the painting and the inception of the IRA.

Patronising, cocky little shit.

That's not to say your DD will turn into a patronising, cocky little shit, but I understand your concerns.

that there were almost 300 years that should have said.

Thanks NanaNina our situation is a bit different. We don't have any grammars in the area at all so the bright go to the indies and the comps. Dd has plenty of wealthy friends at school, we're not even badly off ourselves.

It's just a zealous over confidence / superiority thing, I did wonder how they would cope with 'real' life and it's disappointments, once they left the school bubble.

Still have a couple of independents to visit so will see how we get on. This school is highly recommended, some of DDs friends will likely go there, neighbours children went there for sixth form and speak well of it. Maybe today wasn't representative of the school.

The thing is you are perceiving that they thought that they had superior self worth , you don't know that they think that at all.

My boys are at a co ed independent in an area with lots of independents and they all have a different vibe .My ds' school is very much an all rounder sort of place , they are academically selective but there is a long tail and if you are fab at the violin but struggle at maths that wouldn't rule you out .

I hope my boys have good manners but the youngest would definitely be disappointed to not get top marks I. His gradings are important to him , he works hard and performance is monitored , if he said he was disappointed it would be because he was. Were the pupils talking about internal gradings or external exams .An academically selective school will be just that , the pupils will be strong academically and will aim to achieve , gradings are received 6 weekly.