Independent school visit- DD put off by pupils

[DrTinkle]

We went to a really great school today which will offer DD so many opportunities, we did the tour and she met the teachers and was able to correctly do all the tasks they asked her to have a go at. She is at a state school, is a very high performer and well liked. The school we looked at is academically selective and we are advised DD will get in.

So far so good but she was put off as the pupils doing the tour were very nice but over confident, precocious and, well, a bit odd. One girl was stealth boasting that she was so disappointed to only get an A rather than A* in her worst subject at end of year tests and D found the whole attitude off putting. Their over confidence just felt sort of at odds with our working class ways- does that make sense?

Thought perhaps the precocious ones had been pulled out to impress parents and reassured DD that there will be a more normal spread of people day to day. Have emailed to see if we can visit on a normal day. None of us went to private selective type school, do you think there is there a chance DD just won't fit in?

I don't read any snideness in the OP. Am I missing a backstory? All I heard is she didn't particularly like the attitude conveyed by a few pupils from this school. As I and others have said, if they continue they may find this is the right school. the pupils' attitude is just one data point - but it would be an important one to many,

It is quite possible someone else might actually like the values these students were conveying but that doesn't mean the OP has to. Going through the application process we heard many parents/children express similar about schools we liked, and vice versa.

Private schools aren't all the same and some suit some families better than others - choosing one doesn't mean you think the others are snobby and discriminatory - just not the right fit for your family.

Did she actually say the children were dickheads? Is criticising something a child said now automatically calling a child a dickhead? My poor children.

Calling her chippy because she questioned whether a school is right for her daughter could also be seen as an expression of "get back in your place and be grateful to get in"

Calling her chippy because she questioned whether a school is right for her daughter could also be seen as an expression of "get back in your place and be grateful to get in" Wow, that's your reading of it, what a disgusting thing to say.

It's not her OP, it's the subsequent posts, if you read them the tone gets nastier and nastier.

superior self worth. That was the vibe they were giving off. It was annoying. OP has zero idea of how these girls felt in relation to her based on what they said

but she might end up like at if she goes there and then I'd have to disown her

.I just don't want Dd becoming like that, i'd be horrified. I'm sorry if anyone thinks hideous over confidence is a good thing, perhaps it is I don't know. After one girl...made one comment...about her grades on a school tour, hardly constitutes "hideous over confidence". I think "I'd be horrified if my dd turned out like that" can safely = thinks the other girl is a dickhead

I don't see too many superior types among us working classes so it always throws me a little. - "Us working class types" when shes looking at a private school along with the fact that "working class" people can be just as achingly superior as anyone else can be.

I'm not snobby Ealing but I've only ever witnessed this type of arrogance in the privately educated I'm not snobby I just make snide remarks about preconceived assumptions because of anecdotal evidence I have.

If she doesn't like the school, she doesn't like it, we looked at tons of schools to find the right fit, it's the way it goes. But to be making comments implying how she is so much better than these people because shes sooo "working class" is gross and ridiculous. I loathe this strict class categorizing type of obsession and OP seems to be very hung up on it. I stand by it all, hypocritical and chippy.

Every school has an ethos and a vibe. It sounds like a good idea to go back and see if what you picked up is actually representative.

Of the schools near us one private school is a nightmare. I used to teach them an offsite sport and they were the most arrogant, unpleasant individuals to deal with, ever year. The really did think they were superior to everyone. No one wanted to teach them.

No way in hell was my son going there so he's gone to a lovely school (also private) that teaches respect for others and the value of hard work. Totally different vibe.

This thread is going all kinds of wrong. I hate being shown around by the children on an Open Day.
I would definitely make an appointment in school time to be shown around by the Head or Deputy.

There was a boy at my state primary school like that. He went on to get a double first from Cambridge, so he was not underestimating his own intelligence. However, his apparent need to talk about it was exceedingly tiresome. For him, being intelligent was not enough: he had to make sure as many people as possible knew about it, even those for whom it was of no interest or concern (for those interested, his abilities were self-evident, in any event).

I think the degree of narcissism displayed by the girl showing the OP around the school is probably a natural trait magnified by the private school ethos (and her immaturity), rather than being caused by it. It would be a shame if the school were stuffed full of children who all behaved like that, but she might well be in a minority!

The OP seems very class conscious - what's with the 'old money' comment. Money is money as far as I'm concerned

I do think you get a feel for which are and aren't the right schools for you and your child pretty quickly though.

Good luck with the rest of the open days.

OP seems to be the most class conscious person on the thread, and the one who despises all classes other than her own.

It's OKnto decide you don't like a school (whether state or private) for any reason whatsoever. If doesn't matter whether people think your reasons are good or bad, more that they are valid for you.

Mind you, on MN, the idea of swerving a school because you think it's full of the wrong types which you don't want your DC mixing with in case the attitudes you hate rub off usually doesn't get much support.

I think that having children show you around is excellent - you get it warts and all. It has exposed the fact that OP and DD didn't like it. Much better than having the pupils hidden until she gets there.
The best plan is to go back on a normal working day for a second opinion.
After that go with DDs gut feeling.

I find having children showing me round excruciating. I find Open Days a bit false all round.
I would rather be shown around by a staff member when school is in on a normal day.

All schools have pupil guides, don't they?

Difficult to tell if the one you get is a typical pupil or an outlier, though. Especially when it's a school which expects hundreds to attend their open events, and whole year groups are required to be guides (not a deliberate selection).

OP I haven't read all the comments but it seems to me you basing your option of this school on a couple of comments made by one girl. Do you know think you blowing it out of proportion?
Why don't you give this girl the benefit of the doubt, for a start she is only a child, have you as an adult never said the wrong thing? Maybe she felt slightly uncomfortable showing you round, and was more nervous than you thought, maybe she did "stealth boast" but who hasn't done this at least once in their lives, maybe she was genuinely disappointed in the A instead of an A*, maybe she didn't intend the remark about her exams to come out like this but it did and she found herself in a hole and just kept digging.
I can only comment on DS2's school pupils are not told what to say to prospective parents, also if like his school the school you looked at was super selective then A*s are the norm and an A grade is a disappointment and something you get in your weaker subject(s) and maybe this girl was genuinely disappointed.
Look at some others try ignore the facilities etc they are not that important what it important is that you find a school where your DD and her parents feel comfortable.

I am surprised that people don't like pupils showing you around-it gives a real chance to find out everything you need to know and a good chat to pupils tells you that. You can then ask the Head questions later.
Pupils showing you around lets you know what sort of child they are turning out and whether you want your child to be like that. You can't know unless you talk to them.

Same at university open days- much better to have a student doing the tour.

Anyway- regardless of who showed you around- go back for a second look on a normal working day.

No, I am v happy not being shown around by a child. I actually quite like looking around on my own without the need for chatter.plus I don't want to be judging children.
Luckily school choosing and tours are behind me.
Might be doing University Open Days next year though so will see what I can avoid.

OP you clearly have very preconceived ideas about private school and you saw what you expected to see.

It could be that you were right all along, or it could be that you need to open your mind.

Consider that many people will consider you profoundly arrogant for assuming that the local comprehensives are not good enough for your child .

"My daughter gets on with everyone normally, she has no idea what class is."
OP you seem very class conscious - is your dd completely unaware of your views and attitude on the subject?

I don't work in an inde school but I do work in primary. Whenever there are parents or prospective interview candidates we always choose the most confident and bubbly children. If people based their view of our school on just those kids they would have a bit of a shock when they started.

I'm going to bet that there are all sorts of children at the school. Yes it's selective but it's also few paying so you are bound to get quieter shyer ones, less academic ones, ones who love sport, ones who hate it etc.

Go and have another look

I'm also wondering how old these guides were to be described as 'precocious' .

My DD goes to an all girls independent. I think it is worth doing a taster day if possible. We did a couple. The first one she hated because she was in a boisterous class but the second she found much better in a slightly more quiet and geeky class. ????She has now found a group of friends that are similar to her in the second class and is very happy. In the school there are precocious show offs and there are families with a lot of money but we have also found a lot of lovely, friendly, grounded girls whose parents work very hard to send them there.

Go back to the school on normal working day.

Look at other options (state & independent).

Don't ignore gut feeling.

(Private/grammar/Oxbridge educated so no chips on shoulder re exam success or private schools - but that sort of bragging would make my teeth itch as well).

Kids do say daft things on tours though. Friends were shown around ds2's state grammar & the year 8 boys showing them around told them outlandish stories about a dope smoking boy (who is in one of ds2's classes & does sound a little challenging, but I don't believe is quite the junkie suggested by his reputation!).

There's nothing wrong with turning down a good school if it's not right for your child. Ds2 loves the grammar, but I'm not sure it's right for (academically brighter) ds3 because so many of the boys are so darn confident. I think he might do better in a mixed ability school (state - we can't afford the private options).

I can get what you mean. There's an independent round here whose pupils are generally considered 'awful'. In that way; entitled, obnoxious, little respect for elders and authority - because they are drilled (by their parents) to think they are the dogs bollocks. But then you see the parents and a lot of them are the kind of people that get on at work by not giving a shit about their subordinates - all out for their own glory. And they do get on!

I know several families at that school though who are not like that, and have more gracious kids; that girl will not be representative of everyone.

I think send your DD there - there will be objectionable children in all schools but not all will deliver a great education. She only needs to find one or two kindred spirits to have a good experience. It is good to aim high anyway; you sound like you will encourage that without inflating her head at the same time.

Youretheone I spent quite a lot of time in King's chapel in my dim and distant youth. "Did the artist do it?" Was quite a common question asked.

Don't think you can rule out a school on the basis of a couple of DCs' behaviour on an open day.

Agree with going to look again on a normal day. And perhaps going there when the DC are leaving one day and listening and observing!

I get on a train with DC from a few different private schools and from DC of one school in particular have heard a few comments of the type your DD heard. One girl seemed quite insecure but it was coming across as boasting. The other DC from the same school visibly got bored and annoyed with her. All the DC from all the schools talk lots, frankly but not boastfully, about how they are doing, what tests are coming up, which suggests they have to work hard and be focused on it.

"our identity is all a bit self deprecating humour". This can be a bad thing too, especially when it comes to work.

DrTinkle Did your dd like the kids that you were looking round with? They will be her classmates so are probably more important than some random girl 3 years above.

FWIW I suspect I was quite obnoxious at my (state comprehensive's) open evening aged about 12. I was doing science and we were doing some kind of experiment and we had been split into two teams and it was very close but our team was winning.......

I wasn't asked to do it again the next year.......