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Original poster

Independent school visit- DD put off by pupils

127 replies

DrTinkle · 19/09/2015 18:33

We went to a really great school today which will offer DD so many opportunities, we did the tour and she met the teachers and was able to correctly do all the tasks they asked her to have a go at. She is at a state school, is a very high performer and well liked. The school we looked at is academically selective and we are advised DD will get in.

So far so good but she was put off as the pupils doing the tour were very nice but over confident, precocious and, well, a bit odd. One girl was stealth boasting that she was so disappointed to only get an A rather than A* in her worst subject at end of year tests and D found the whole attitude off putting. Their over confidence just felt sort of at odds with our working class ways- does that make sense?

Thought perhaps the precocious ones had been pulled out to impress parents and reassured DD that there will be a more normal spread of people day to day. Have emailed to see if we can visit on a normal day. None of us went to private selective type school, do you think there is there a chance DD just won't fit in?

OP posts:
Original poster
DrTinkle · 19/09/2015 21:00

Well, that's the thing. I loved the school and the teachers were able to be highly impressive without being at all annoying. But we certainly will visit others.

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Original poster
DrTinkle · 19/09/2015 21:05

My daughter gets on with everyone normally, she has no idea what class is. She does however have a built in bullshitometer.

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SushiAndTheBanshees · 19/09/2015 21:06

I'm afraid I just don't see how the comments about not getting an A were signs of superiority. The girl wasn't saying that people who don't get As are somehow inferior, although I think you will say that was her implication (which I think could be grossly unfair to her). She was quite baldly saying that A is better than A (which it is, obviously), that it was her own fault she didn't get an A (how can that not be self deprecating?!) and gave you the reasons why (because she did less work on French because she was doing two other languages, which in my book is great).

I think you would need to come from the school of thought that "A is good enough" to consider this comment superior. Independent schools, at least the better ones, will NOT praise a student who is capable of getting A*s if they get As. Why on earth would they? It's totally self limiting, for children who have every opportunity thrown at them and for whom, quite frankly, there is no excuse (except of course when there is).

I wonder whether the independent school ethos itself is what offends you. You seem to have turned an entirely non-class based issue into a WC vs MC thing. Some independent schools excel in turning out glossy, high achieving, confident young men and women. If this is not what you want for your DD, or if you fear his will turn her into someone "superior", this is not the right place for you.

Having said all of this (!), I absolutely 100% believe you must trust your gut instinct when touring schools, and also think you are doing absolutely the right thing to give it another try. Good luck for next time round!

Original poster
DrTinkle · 19/09/2015 21:13

are you her mother sushi? I didn't find her glossy or view anything superior about her other than her attitude, sorry.

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BYOSnowman · 19/09/2015 21:28

different schools give off different vibes - we liked the ones where the kids were a little scruffy and happy but we could also see they were confident in themselves, rather than the ones where they came across as feeling superior (I do know what you mean and I don't think it's a nice trait)

Having said all that, I know a lot of girls schools push for the girls to be hyper confident because they feel it is the best way to make them successful in a male world. I can see their point - I don't know any senior women at work who are self deprecating but plenty of men

SushiAndTheBanshees · 19/09/2015 21:28

No, I'm not Hmm

It's the attitude I was talking about. I don't think, and didn't suggest that you viewed her as superior to you (quite the opposite, as it happens).

Canyouforgiveher · 19/09/2015 21:34

Dr Tinkle, I don't know whether there is the same wealth of choice in your part of UK as we have here in northeastern US but there are schools where we went in and said "they are about the business of educating bankers" (not what we want to spend our money on) . Usually you hear loud and clear what the school values from what the head says at open days and what the students say to you on tours. Generally schools pick who they consider to be their best or most representative students to be visible on open days.

Take a look around and see if you can find a school where the ethos most matches your own values (bearing in mind that many on MN will think you have no values at all if you choose private school)

Alwayssunny · 19/09/2015 21:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
DrTinkle · 19/09/2015 21:57

canyouforgiveher I really hope we see something different at the other schools. I am a bit sceptical as actually this was the school people told me was the least exam factory orientated and where pupils were valued as individuals. So it was a little surprising to find the opposite.

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ealingwestmum · 19/09/2015 21:57

Not all schools select the most confident, others select the whole year group and brief them to be engaging but honest with their responses. You sound like you got a dud tour group so definitely go again and view others for a comparison. These are still only children though, and not all have fully mastered the art of spontaneous Q&As that can be quite pressured, in spite of their outward air of confidence!

There's a fine balance of not coming across sounding like a superior know-it- all and sincere in their exam disappointment...this one obviously got it wrong. And there will always be braggy children in all schools, surely? So cross check, and go with your intuition, and move on if you still feel this.

However, there is also nothing attractive about reverse snobbery. Lots of prospective school parents have this - especially when viewing selective schools.

Original poster
DrTinkle · 19/09/2015 22:02

I'm glad you found an independent where arrogance isn't a valued trait alwayssunny, I really hope we can too. Confidence and being secure in oneself is a lovely thing but this was something else.

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Original poster
DrTinkle · 19/09/2015 22:05

I'm not snobby Ealing but I've only ever witnessed this type of arrogance in the privately educated. Obviously there are plenty of privately educated people out there not displaying this trait. I just haven't seen it arise from state schooling.

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Original poster
DrTinkle · 19/09/2015 22:06

Yet.

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BYOSnowman · 19/09/2015 22:12

unfortunately I have!

Millymollymama · 19/09/2015 22:20

How do you know after meeting one child that the pupils were not treated as individuals? Seems like a massive conclusion from a child mistakenly trying to impress you. Which appears to be rather difficult.

My DD showed umpteen prospects parents round her school, sometimes on an open day and sometimes at a private view. She was chosen because she could answer questions, got on well with parents, was enthusiastic (the key component) and obviously showed the school in a good light. She was not pumped full of faux pomposity to dish out to people. Thank goodness. The school wanted to have decent pupils who could talk to parents. On open days it is more "pot luck" because if it is a Saturday the choice can be limited to those who are willing to give up their time. Mine did. Willingly. In fact some parents actually sought me out upon joining the school to say what a good guide she had been.

Conversely it is not right to judge a school based on a tour given by one child. Another child may have been your sort. I am not sure I am happy with your judgmental attitude towards a young person and I do suggest you meet a few more young people at the school but I don't honestly think you will fit in. Your own feelings and judgement about the pupil are too strong. Best to look elsewhere I think.

SimLondon · 19/09/2015 22:22

DrTinky - is there any chance that you are just a tad up your own arse?

ealingwestmum · 19/09/2015 22:22

Wasn't completely implying you were, though I am a little baffled as you seem so concerned about this trait being exclusive to private and yet still considering it a possibility for your DD?

Lots of them have kids from backgrounds just like us (but not all, definitely do your due diligence). Our children can learn very quickly to rub up along all types, including the over exuberant borderline cocky arrogant ones and still come out hopefully kind but self assured young people...with our influence Grin

Millymollymama · 19/09/2015 22:23

State Grammar Schools - parental snobbery in large doses around here! Especially when raising funds for the school - fantastic displays of outbidding one another and showing off! Some parents I know at these schools could out-snob the parents at the local girls' independent school!

katemiddletonsothermum · 19/09/2015 22:24

Ouch. I think this thread is about to turn nasty.

ealingwestmum · 19/09/2015 22:37

Not trying to kate!

Hopefully a constructive point I can add is open days are schools' sales days. If, for some bizarre reason, this school manages to keep you hooked in the glorious process, then attitudes can change dramatically - from exam day, interviews, auditions (if applicable) etc. The real persona of the school can come out. What started out as your favourite can end up the bottom...vice versa. Hopefully your DD will be in a position where she can choose where she goes, and I am not sure if you're needing to go through the entrance process based on your opening comment advised DD will get in.

Great if you've bypassed the circus...

RachelZoe · 19/09/2015 22:41

Seriously OP, why on earth would you contemplate private school for your kids when you obviously hold privately educated people in such contempt?

You call out perceived arrogance and snobbishness yet you are doing exactly the same thing. These were possibly coached children. Were you not a bit of a dick at that age? Or do "working class" people not do anything wrong ever? Arrogance isn't a valued trait at any school, don't be so ridiculous.

If your daughter has "no idea what class is" and you think that's a good thing (which it is incidentally), then why are you so wrapped up in it?

BabyGanoush · 19/09/2015 22:42

It was just 1 girl, and kids talk like that sometimes. Especially in a school where achievements are celebrated.

Keep your mind open. Have a look around again.

NanaNina · 20/09/2015 01:37

Oh dear this thread is getting boring and going round in circles, all over a passing comment of one girl........ridiculous. SimLondon your comment wasn't nice but made me Grin a lot! Also agree with you Rachel you said exactly what I was thinking but in an eloquent manner.

Canyouforgiveher · 20/09/2015 03:14

If you decide to send your child to a private school then you are choosing - as is the school. I certainly would take into account my impression of the priorities of the pupils as displayed in their conversation with me and my child when making that choice.

That said, I agree with a previous poster who said you need to look at the school through the whole process. If you visit and you all really hate it then knock it off your list but if you just have some concerns it is worth going further to see how it fits. agree also with that poster that the school that looks perfect at the beginning may look different by the end of the process.

by the way is the OP up her own arse because she is actually looking at the school as closely as the school is looking at her daughter or just because she is choosing private education at all?

RachelZoe · 20/09/2015 04:33

I think OP is being up her own arse, all my kids are at private school, that's not my issue, it's all the snide "I'm so down to earth and working class me" crap when you're sending your kid to a private school and being just as snobby and discriminatory as the children she is accusing of being dickheads allegedly were. Reeks of hypocrisy and chippiness.