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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Right. Tell me what to do here- key words- 11+, g&t, University, widening access......

370 replies

BertrandRussell · 08/07/2015 22:28

Ds is at a secondary modern school. 7% high ability, of which he is one. Letter home today inviting him in a visit to our local (excellent) university because he has been "identified as talented in one or more subjects"

Fantastic thar the school is arranging visits- it has only just started to send any kids to university at all. The school's catchment means that there are very few parents with more than a basic education, and they are pushing hArd to raise the aspirations of the kids- which is fantastic.

Dp and I have 4 degrees between us. Dd is at a Russell group university. Ds will definitely, if he wants to, go to university. It iseems ridiculous of the school to waste a space on this trip on ds. Should I say something? He's not particularly bothered- except that it means a day off school. If he doesn't go, they could give the space to someone that it might actually make a difference to. Surely they should have thought of this? What do I do? And is it depressing that even in a secondary modern school, privilege attracts privilege?

OP posts:
Molio · 09/07/2015 14:48

Just let the kid go if he fancies it. You run a very real risk of looking like a real snob if you decline it on these grounds, however well intentioned you are. I doubt places are that limited anyhow. Also, he might enjoy the day. It does sound over controlling, I agree.

summerends · 09/07/2015 14:55

Bertrand I agree with Molio that places may not be limiting so your moral dilemma may be a non issue. Also should he not go what excuse would he be able to say to the other DCs without it being contrived or patronising ?

MN164 · 09/07/2015 15:09

I think the OP has had a hard time on this thread. Lots of "arrogant" and "patronising" comments that are judgemental, opinionated and, in my opinion, unhelpful. All of the points those posters made could have been made without being judgemental at all.

For what it's worth, if you are concerned that your child won't benefit much by going and that this would be at the expense of someone else that might benefit, talk to the school and the co-ordinator and discuss. Combine this with your child's opinion.

TalkinPeace · 09/07/2015 15:14

I stand corrected on the data - although I'm pretty sure its spotted as part of Pupil premium allocations.

FWIW Year 9 is actually too late to encourage Widening Participation.
At the events DH is involved with, KS2 sessions have the greatest impact
as then the kids start secondary with the idea of university already in their heads
so it affects their work long before GCSE options

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 09/07/2015 15:19

Interesting- both secondary schools my children have attended have asked for the level of parental education.

And places are limited. To 10.

OP posts:
TheWordFactory · 09/07/2015 15:22

Why only ten?

If they're supposedly pushing hard for widening access?

RedPenny · 09/07/2015 15:23

Find out what the trip is really about. Some uni's offer G&T programmes for children, to give them an extra dimension to their education.

Millymollymama · 09/07/2015 15:25

I think the OP has stood her ground and I don't think any of the comments are unacceptable. It is not patronising for a child who is enthusiastic about university to encourage others. It happens all the time. The child just does not stand up and announce he or she has higher aspirations and more educated parents than everyone else! It is normal behaviour to start talking about courses and universities among a group of friends. What better place than a trip to a university? However, the op's DS would rather go to his sports lesson. So let him do that if he can't see the wider picture. No harm done.

titchy · 09/07/2015 15:25

OP said space limited due to size of minibus although most minibuses take 15 so even with 2 teachers there'd still be room for 3 more kids

Millymollymama · 09/07/2015 15:30

I am impressed that posters know the history of this child and the 11 plus!!! What memories! I have no idea about any of this. It is also important to note that having a degree is not the only passport to having a fulfilled life and that some jobs that make you happy do not need a degree.

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 09/07/2015 15:37

"I think the OP has stood her ground and I don't think any of the comments are unacceptable."

Really? You don't think the way you have talked about my son is unacceptable? Hmm

I stand (possibly) corrected about the minibus- I thought it took 10 kids and 2 teachers. It may be 13 kids and 2 teachers. But still the trip is limited to one mini bus full.

OP posts:
Original poster
BertrandRussell · 09/07/2015 15:39

"Find out what the trip is really about. Some uni's offer G&T programmes for children, to give them an extra dimension to their education."

I know what the trip is really about.

OP posts:
Original poster
BertrandRussell · 09/07/2015 15:42

"Why only ten?

If they're supposedly pushing hard for widening access?"

I have no idea.

OP posts:
Millymollymama · 09/07/2015 16:00

No , I don't think the way I have talked about your son is unacceptable! You have dished it out back in return and it was you who said he would rather do PE. I have merely suggested that your DS might be better advised not to go if he would rather go to his PE lesson. I have not sworn, used offensive language or been aggressive. I have stated my opinion and so have many others who, although you don't like it, tend to support the argument that he should go. I now think differently. Please do try and find a fully deserving child to go in his place. Every day, when I read posts like this, I am so glad I am not a teacher just trying to do my best for all the children in the school! What a thankless task!

Millymollymama · 09/07/2015 16:02

TheWordFactory. There may be 10 on this trip and 10 more in year 10 to a different university!!! This may not be the only trip. It is just the one the OP knows about!!!

TheWordFactory · 09/07/2015 16:06

True.

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 09/07/2015 16:09

"You have dished it out back in return"
Really? Where have I told anyone that they or their child was arrogant, or lazy or didn't care about their friends?
This is the only such trip. I am a governor and all trips like this are mentioned at governors meetings.

OP posts:
RashDecision · 09/07/2015 16:14

Are you deliberately misunderstanding me? I would not expect him to give up his place in a team to a less able child if he was fairly selected.

He was fairly selected for this trip. So no, not deliberately misunderstanding, or trying to be antagonistic. Just trying to show a different take on it.

RashDecision · 09/07/2015 16:15

Out of interest op, what would you say to your DS about turning down the place on the trip? In turn, what message would this send to him, and what will he say to his classmates about it?

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 09/07/2015 16:19

I apologise, Milly, you didn't say my son was arrogant, lazy and didn't care about his friends.

You said he was arrogant, selfish and didn't care about his friends..........

OP posts:
Millymollymama · 09/07/2015 16:44

Dear God!!! You are a Governor!!! Those poor teachers!!!!! I stand by what I said - like several others, I'm afraid he/you do come across as arrogant and selfish. I didn't say lazy. However, he clearly has mitigating circumstances and is only 14. If you have influence at the school, and that means you are directly concerned with its strategic vision, I cannot see why you don't suggest they do more trips and make absolutely certain that widening access really does involve all the children that would benefit. You are not fulfilling your role as a governor if you do not do this. Criticising the school on MN is a bit rich when you are a Governor and really could encourage the school to include more children. I bet the Head just loves you!

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 09/07/2015 16:47

Milly- you do realise you are sounding just a tad hysterical, don't you?

OP posts:
BeaufortBelle · 09/07/2015 16:59

What I'm wondering as you and your DH have so many degrees between you and must by virtue of that be very clever people, and if your children are gifted and talented, why are they attending a secondary school which is only just starting to send young people to university. Could you not find a better one for them to attend; one which has high expectations for all its pupils and which has clear and transparent policies about inclusion and selection processes for activities.

For what it's worth, of course your son should attend. He has been selected in accordance with criteria determined by the school. Who are you to question why and if he should go. He might do that but if he is a sporty sort of boy who is good at PE if he is seen to cock a snook at such a trip then so might others. Other who don't have support at home to go to university. Inclusion is about far more than who goes on these sorts of trips; it's also about how cohorts of children perceive those who don't go and who are seen to refuse them. Your son may well act cool and say "oh, you know, my mum said there was no point in me going". Just think about how that might be interpreted. If he has any emotional intelligence at all he most certainly wouldn't say "oh, I was selected but didn't go because my mum feels I'll go anyway due to the privileges I already have from my parents' education levels". I suppose he might experience another world if he does that - you know the one where you see all the other people who's taken a punch or three waiting to see the doctor in a&e.

TalkinPeace · 09/07/2015 17:01

Beaufort
The OP lives in Kent and her child failed the 11+
Its a bugger of a situation but changing schools in Kent is not like the real world.

Eastpoint · 09/07/2015 17:09

Can't you just accept that your son is lucky to have parents who can support him & that he has been selected to attend a special event? There are lots of people who would be very happy to have their child chosen, who knows what this trip may lead to. Perhaps this is about your child, not you & his father?