I think DDs school want her out

[lucydaniels4658]

DD 14 attends an academy school. She is achieving very low grades 3c-4a . She has ADHD and dyslexia . In the last few months they seem to be targeting DD . DD is no angel but she has never bullied anyone sworn smoked etc . Her crime not concentrating and being a bit disruptive (chatty ). Previous schools have dealt with it well simply by refocussing her . They tell her she is going to be permanently excluded then wonder why she has become more defiant and off with them .I know there are students much more challenging but achieve higher grades and they don't get harassed. They call me many times a day over things like her shirt was untucked ,she had gum really trivial minor things that don't warrant the sanctions and calls home.Where as some classmates truant and swear and nothing.Even her classmates ask teacher why they only tell DD off . When i complain they more or less say im the problem and they are trying to "correct her behaviour" and i make it difficult. Sadly moving her isn't an option in the area i'm in. I'm so desperate i'm considering homeschooling but she'd hate it she is very sociable . I have made official complaint and outcome was they are doing their job i'm preventing them. What would you do?!!

I had similar issues just from ds year 1 teacher. From September to February he was sent to sit in the corridor all day everyday because of some made up infringement of the school rules. e.g. he spent too long getting his socks on after PE, (he has strange shaped feet and socks and shoes are a real issue. I can sweat trying to get his feet into socks), he asked a question or the final straw, he coughed. Ds had been off for a while with a lung infection. Drs said he could return to school as he was no longer infectious but he would have a cough for the next 6 weeks. I told the CA and the teacher before school. First cough and he was out in the corridor.

I found out from one of his classmates, I went straight to the HT and complained. The teacher was gone that afternoon never to return.

In this world of the majority of schools only being interested in how many GCSEs their pupils get I am surprised that there are not more incidents such as this.

Both of my children are dyslexic

Ds goes to a secondary that is in special measures, there are only 12 pupils in his class and he gets the 1 to 1 help he needs. Dd also has ADD and goes to a specialised private school that again gives her the 1 to 1 that she needs. I don't know how the school would get on with the class year in dds school as out of 56 pupils, 44 are diagnosed with dyslexia and yet they get really good results, better than your dds school hopes to attain

You know, a big part of the problem here is that a lot of professionals (schools, LAs, NHS and therapists) just can't accept in practice that children with autism and ADHD are actually different. There is this constant unrealistic expectation that they can be 'normal' if their deficits are pointed out to them, over and over again, and a bit of punishment thrown in to make them think twice about having the audacity to display their disability openly in the future. And this stuff is coming from people who really should know better.

Presenting as 'normal', as required in school day in day out, is bloody hard if not downright impossible for a child with ADHD. Why is that so hard to understand?

With regards to embarrassment caused by the mum wanting us to go with her reward plan - she asked teachers to make it clear. In the specific case of this child it was important that he knew that school was consciously working with his mum. He would not have made the link without it being made explicit. None of you know this child, so don't jump in and assume I was doing anything other than what his mother had explicitly requested.

Mandy , my ds has just left a specialised school with56 pupils I wonder if it is the same one

And would you also explain that to the parents who complain that their child never gets to win certificates Fairenuff? Managing teenagers and their sense of what is/is not fair is a minefield. There's no such thing as a praise system everyone thinks is fair - too many individuals with their own views on what "fair" is.

Yes, I would happily explain the reward system to parents Evil.

If you think your system is unfair, why are you using it? I would give rewards according to targets achieved. So, for child A (with sn) concentrating for 15 minutes might merit a reward. For child B (no sn) meeting one of their literacy targets might merit a reward. Make targets achievable and everyone will receive their reward. If targets are not being met, think about changing them to something more realistic.

It's really not hard.

Evil I made a mistake and skim read your post, which I apologised for.

I actually would be the mother who might decide to allow treat, even if the school had issued sanctions, if I though my DC had been punished enough and I though behaviour a home warranted a treat. You cannot judge her for this, it is her call and yes she might make mistakes sometimes. As a school do you pay no attention to preventing melt downs, de-escalating conflict, preventing emotional crisis points?

'And would you also explain that to the parents who complain that their child never gets to win certificates Fairenuff?'

No, because their education is their responsibility as is their morality, their tolerance and their prejudices. They are ADULTS.

Evil have you ever witnessed a meltdown , it maybe that the mother knew that the effect could be catastrophic for several weeks and that in the end the positive effects of the activity may outweigh the negative of the short term sanction.A parent has to see the whole picture not just one small part.

Maybe participation could help his self esteem that my help him to manage the meltdowns in the future or it may aid another aspect of his social development.I do understand what you are trying to say but it's really not as simple as it may seem on the surface .ADHD is a massively complex condition, , I would say that whilst we manage it well it affects 100% of our family life .

Capsium - in this specific example, the conversation happened in school, with the child present. She expects school to set boundaries and to be consistent but doesn't do the same herself. This is not helpful to her DS who had ODD as well as ADHD and needs to be really confident about what he is and is not doing. The confusion does not help him.

WRT the praise system - it's not about individual targets - that's not so simple in secondary where children are in 5 different lessons per day. It's about a variety of things including personal standard of work - something the SENCO implemented because obviously standard of work is different for different children. However, sometimes, teachers use it as an incentive for children who the other kids'perceive as "naughty" - thanks to whoever pointed out that SEN does not equal naughty. I know that. The other children sometimes see that as unfair.

outtolunch - yes I have, though obviously not as frequently as a parent of a child with ADHD.

The more negativity DD is given the more DD shows negative behaviour.I feel they are seeking that reaction to compile as evidence .They go on and on and on till she cries and becomes defiant it is not comfortable I witnessed this first hand in a meeting hence my first official complaint!

ODD = Oppositional Defiance Disorder?

I thought, in terms of this condition, it is often considered beneficial to de-escalate conflicts and avoid crisis points? Over enforcement of 'firm boundaries' I can quite easily see being counter productive in terms of this condition, in that it could clause the person in question to 'dig their heels in further' / meltdown.

Yes, it may be apparent something is going wrong. But as an outsider, I would say you have to take a very considered approach, which often involves treading a fine line between different strategies. You cannot easily judge in this scenario.

^sorry that last post to Evil.

Only read first page lucy but I feel the school is letting your dd down in not making any real provision for her learning difficulties and special needs (ADHD and dyslexia), unlike previous schools she has attended.
ADHD in girls is often under diagnosed and probably under provided for as well (even where it has been identified)

Sorry haven't read more of thread but initial feeling is could it be possible to find a new school for her? (I know you've said this wouldn't be easy, but hopefully not impossible?) They seem to be taking a very negative approach where she is at the moment. I feel for you both and hope you can find a good way forward x

Yes, you're right, but the mother in question has requested that the school behaves in a particular way WRT her DS so it help no one if we follow her wishes and then she does the opposite. The child sees us as the enemy because we don't let him do exactly as he wants whereas Mum gives in 9 times out of 10.

Evil. Frustrating as this maybe, you are the educational professionals and are paid for educating this child, following procedures and consulting with her. She is not. You must just continue to consult, feed back honestly and make the best decisions you can, to do what is best for the child.

WRT the praise system - it's not about individual targets - that's not so simple in secondary where children are in 5 different lessons per day.

But you only have to concern yourself with your lessons and if a child achieves a target in your lesson, or with their homework, then you can reward them.

It's about a variety of things including personal standard of work - something the SENCO implemented because obviously standard of work is different for different children.

This is contradicting your first statement that they can't have individual targets. I agree with your SENCO, the children should have a personal standard. All the children. Have you not set individual targets then?

Totally agree with you Capsium and as it happens I am rather fond of this particular child and an often the teacher saying "try this... This works in my classroom... You're wrong - he is very talented at X, Y & Z" to colleagues. Which is why the blanket "teachers are the enemy" attitude is frustrating and insulting.

I am looking but live in a very selective area. Other local schools are selective or religious or private. I am looking at two next week but they aren't as close as i'd like. I am also worried they will take one look at DDs school record and shes judged again. They even told DD no other school would have her after reading her records.

Op, I'm wondering whether it would be advisable to ask for a copy (or to have sight of it) of her PPR (that's what it's called in Scotland, not sure about England). This file would have been created since primary school and followed her throughout her education. There would be a cost to get a copy, I think, but it may be useful for when you are making complaints and pushing for support to be put back in place.

I am assuming that her previous school would have sent it to her present school so they would see written records and current SN plans. The question is, why are they not giving her 15 hours support per week or implementing the other support you have mentioned that was helpful to her in other schools?

How frustrating for you and her .

'SEN does not equal naughty. I know that. The other children sometimes see that as unfair'

So what? Why must a child who is at an already considerable disadvantage bear the brunt of the teachers' lack of skill at engaging or managing those other children?

Evil I don't believe teachers are the enemy but they are not beyond reproach either.

I do challenge (anyone, teachers or children) when I feel the need to, I also let things go, sometimes, too. This makes me a friend, not an enemy.

I do not employ Zero Tolerance. I don't think many, including those within the teaching professions, would be very happy if I did....

Fairenuff - you're talking yourself round in circles in your attempt to discredit me. Yes, I only have to think about my own lesson, but if I (and each of my colleagues) were setting each child 3 targets each per subject on which their praise points were dependent that's a heck of a lot of targets a child has to remember. This thread started with a frustrated mother whose DD was not being given help remembering a set of instructions in a lesson. Now you're suggesting that same child (or another like her) should be expected to know nearly 40 targets and be able to remember which ones the get points for in which lesson? Hardly.

'The child sees us as the enemy because we don't let him do exactly as he wants whereas Mum gives in 9 times out of 10.'

How can you know that? Do you live with them?

Perhaps she feels that 1:1 careful monitoring of his disability and development in behavioural terms is too complex and too arduous a task to expect the school to deliver so she has requested a system that the school can stick to that is the least undermining of what she is trying to achieve at home.