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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

I think DDs school want her out

258 replies

lucydaniels4658 · 13/09/2014 10:54

DD 14 attends an academy school. She is achieving very low grades 3c-4a . She has ADHD and dyslexia . In the last few months they seem to be targeting DD . DD is no angel but she has never bullied anyone sworn smoked etc . Her crime not concentrating and being a bit disruptive (chatty ). Previous schools have dealt with it well simply by refocussing her . They tell her she is going to be permanently excluded then wonder why she has become more defiant and off with them .I know there are students much more challenging but achieve higher grades and they don't get harassed. They call me many times a day over things like her shirt was untucked ,she had gum really trivial minor things that don't warrant the sanctions and calls home.Where as some classmates truant and swear and nothing.Even her classmates ask teacher why they only tell DD off . When i complain they more or less say im the problem and they are trying to "correct her behaviour" and i make it difficult. Sadly moving her isn't an option in the area i'm in. I'm so desperate i'm considering homeschooling but she'd hate it she is very sociable . I have made official complaint and outcome was they are doing their job i'm preventing them. What would you do?!!

OP posts:

outtolunchagain · 14/09/2014 10:40

I would just say that his school have been very supportive and have been far more concerned about his long term health and happiness than whether other children felt he was getting preferential treatment.

It has been a very difficult time and if another person , a teacher , had judged me as a parent for removing the medication because in their , clearly limited experience, to not medicate is irresponsible , I am not sure if I could have been responsible for my reply .

EvilTwins · 14/09/2014 10:41

OP the problem with this thread is that your OP focuses on a couple of petty things (which I know has frustrated you as you have had to point out a number if times that you were just giving examples) The big issue is clearly that the SENCO is not doing his/her job properly. If your DD was at my school she would have an IEP and a PSP which both you and she would have contributed to.

That aside, IME, consistency is key - we expect every teacher to follow procedures consistently for students with SEND. It's not fair otherwise - why should a child have to try to remember that it's probably ok to ask to borrow a pen in Mr X's lesson whilst Mrs Y will give a demerit for forgetting one in her lesson. Our SENCO is very hot on this - consistency helps. BUT this has to follow through to home. This does not me a that school is right and home is wrong - we have consistently followed systems or ideas that parents have said they use at home (though sometimes the kids find it embarrassing) Kids are astute - if they get one message at school and another one at home, they know that parents and teachers are not working together and that makes things worse for everyone.

Fairenuff · 14/09/2014 10:42

6 year olds in my class understand that different children have different needs and have no problem making allowances for those that need extra time, attention, activities, etc. to help them concentrate and learn.

EvilTwins · 14/09/2014 10:49

I get what you say fairenuff but if you were a well-behaved hard working 13 year old who never makes it to the top of the praise point league table because the top spots are always taken by the "naughty" kids who they think get points for things everyone else does without thinking, you'd be pissed off too. And plenty of parents are as well - just look at threads on the education boards about reward certificates never being given to the quiet hard-working kids.

Teachers can't win. Every child deserves to be treated as an individual. No one child's needs trumps those of another.

Original poster

lucydaniels4658 · 14/09/2014 10:49

Some teachers are great with her off their own back with no guidance or help from SENCO or SMT input . DD makes progress in their lessons and behaviour isn't an issue. She knows they are fair and feels they "like her" so she gives her all. One in particular has been lovely and gives up 3 hours a week to catch DD up . I don't expect them all to do the same but just being fair is all i want expecting her to remember 10 instructions with no hand out is setting her up to fail then she gets frustrated as she knows if she asks what to do they will get frustrated as they've explained once.

OP posts:

capsium · 14/09/2014 10:50

Evil again there does seem to be an assumption that school are right and parents are wrong. This little, not so innocent, comment,

"though sometimes the kids find it embarrassing"

indicates this IMO. Not so long ago there was a thread concerning how little training teachers receive regarding SEN. Is is not surprising that parents, who have had to deal with their child's SNs 24/7 and often for the rest of their lives might have something very meaningful to contribute regarding what works and what does not work for their child?

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 14/09/2014 10:51

But the OP is't complaining about the fact that her DD was pulled up for chewing gum or having her shirt untucked. She says she supports the school with that. It's that the sanctions are over and above what other children are getting.

And no matter how much the parents aren't working with the school, there is no excuse for teachers calling a child stupid or not following the behaviour plans the school has in place. The schools and parents do need to work together, but that involves the schools putting in the effort too.

Is it so hard to accept that actually teachers want to help every child achieve?

There's a time where I would have written that. When you find your self experiencing it from the other side of the fence the picture of 'inclusive education' starts to look very different. For the most part it isn't the teachers' fault they are overworked and training in SN is woefully inadequate but when yo mix that with the minority of teachers/schools that really don't give a damn it really really bad for the children involved.

EvilTwins · 14/09/2014 10:54

The kids find it embarrassing if I, as the teacher, even quietly with no other child in earshot says "well done, XXX - that's a merit mark - I'll write it in your diary like Mum asked so that she knows and you'll get your cinema trip on Saturday"

You seems determined that I am making parents the enemy.

Teenagers DO sometimes find it embarrassing.

capsium · 14/09/2014 10:54

And teachers can win. They just need to take on board what parents say and treat children as the individuals they are. Treating them as you would want to be treated yourself is a good start...

Would you like your employers to have a Zero Tolerance policy over your work performance? Oh of course it is impossible to measure .....too many variables, no?

Fairenuff · 14/09/2014 10:54

Evil I would ask that 13 year old if they would like to swap lives with the 'naughty kid' and have all the praise points and the sn that helped them get them.

I would talk to the child and explain the reasoning behind it. How hard is it for the girl to sit quietly for an hour - easy. But for the child with ADHD it takes massive effort just to concentrate for 15 minutes at a time, a bit like running a marathon. So, really, who has put in the most effort and who deserves the praise points. The 13 year old will be able to understand if you explain it properly.

Also, I would make sure that there was a reward system that everyone could benefit from because every child should receive praise and be made to feel that their efforts were noteworthy regardless of their academic level or ability.

streakybacon · 14/09/2014 10:56

I've been thinking a lot about that thread too Rafa - same issues, different thread .

outtolunchagain · 14/09/2014 10:56

Evil a child with ADD is not " naughty "

Of course they can be badly behaved and need to be sanctioned , but the fact that my child needs extra incentives to help him understand the significance of some social norms does not by definition make him "naughty "

This thread has made me cry and I think I may have to leave it.My son has ADD ( note no H) so is rarely if ever badly behaved , he is ignored though on occasions because he is quiet , he needs extra praise and prompts compared to my other boys , my younger son is 13 he completely understands this , just like he understands that the diabetic little girl in his class is not being " naughty" if she has to eat a glucose sweet in class.

capsium · 14/09/2014 10:56

Evil why are you mentioning this, 'like Mum asked' (is she your Mum too?) within earshot of other children? I am not surprised there is embarrassment....

StarlightMcKenzie · 14/09/2014 10:56

'Schools and parents need to work together.'

Yes they do, and the sooner schools realise this and do it in an equal partnership arrangement rather than insisting on the outreach model or none, the better for everyone.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 14/09/2014 10:56

I don't expect them all to do the same but just being fair is all i want expecting her to remember 10 instructions with no hand out is setting her up to fail

The really stupid thing is that dealing with this issue by giving a handout could actually benefit all the children in the class, particularly in lower ability sets where any of the children might have issues with working memory despite having no diagnosed SN.

Fairenuff · 14/09/2014 10:57

If the child concerned is embarrassed about this, don't do it. How about saying, "X can I have your diary please", then writing the note to mum and hand it back to the child. They still get the merit, they still get the cinema trip but you will have done this without embarrassing them.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 14/09/2014 10:58

Sorry, streaky, I'm not sure which thread you are talking about.

Sadly I suspect it isn't an isolated issue.

PolterGoose · 14/09/2014 11:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

streakybacon · 14/09/2014 11:00

Sorry Rafa, it was capsium referring to the lack of SEN Training thread last week.

StarlightMcKenzie · 14/09/2014 11:00

'The motivation needs to be intrinsic to really be of worth in the long term.'

That is putting the responsibility of motivation onto the child, which is ridiculous. If you're not motivated, you're not.

The teachers need to find a way to motivate the child, and refusing her rewards, and listing her faults, is NOT WORKING.

capsium · 14/09/2014 11:01

Oh I see you don't mention this within earshot, sorry skimmed there. However I do not think you have to mention this at all. It is embarrassing to have everyone scrutinising your every move though...you can see how it could make someone self conscious? Adults manage what personal information they give to what people all the time.

capsium · 14/09/2014 11:02

^my last post was to Evil

StarlightMcKenzie · 14/09/2014 11:02

'Sounds like you are defending her poor behaviour and she has picked up on this.'

No it doesn't. It sounds like the OP is defending her child's self-esteem within an incompetent institution.

EvilTwins · 14/09/2014 11:02

And would you also explain that to the parents who complain that their child never gets to win certificates Fairenuff? Managing teenagers and their sense of what is/is not fair is a minefield. There's no such thing as a praise system everyone thinks is fair - too many individuals with their own views on what "fair" is.

Capsium - ironically, you are doing exactly what you accuse me of. Have you even read my post? I do take parents' wishes into account - but as I said, it has backfired because the child was embarrassed that his mum had asked school to remind him of treats he was earning at home. Also, parents don't always do a flawless job - my example of the mother who gave in (and often does) because she doesn't want to deal with the melt down - that's not helpful for the child, OR the school.

Original poster

lucydaniels4658 · 14/09/2014 11:03

Yes I have no issue with them sanctioning behaviour in a fair way .Harassing me with phone calls to my work and punishing her OTT is a stupid over a minor uniform one off surely a verbal reprimand would be ample.The staff don't support each other let alone DD. There are very clear divides some staff slag off others to DD and have told me her treatment from others is "off as she is lovely with me" . Very unhealthy .DD would hate to be treated differently because of her SN but she wants to be treated the same as the others not hated.She has become so insecure when she is complimented she doesn't know how to take it .When i do she acts like shes not heard if my friends family do she goes bright red puts her hands over her face a scuttles off . She was never like this before.

OP posts:

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