I think DDs school want her out

[lucydaniels4658]

DD 14 attends an academy school. She is achieving very low grades 3c-4a . She has ADHD and dyslexia . In the last few months they seem to be targeting DD . DD is no angel but she has never bullied anyone sworn smoked etc . Her crime not concentrating and being a bit disruptive (chatty ). Previous schools have dealt with it well simply by refocussing her . They tell her she is going to be permanently excluded then wonder why she has become more defiant and off with them .I know there are students much more challenging but achieve higher grades and they don't get harassed. They call me many times a day over things like her shirt was untucked ,she had gum really trivial minor things that don't warrant the sanctions and calls home.Where as some classmates truant and swear and nothing.Even her classmates ask teacher why they only tell DD off . When i complain they more or less say im the problem and they are trying to "correct her behaviour" and i make it difficult. Sadly moving her isn't an option in the area i'm in. I'm so desperate i'm considering homeschooling but she'd hate it she is very sociable . I have made official complaint and outcome was they are doing their job i'm preventing them. What would you do?!!

starlight Must be hard.

Starlight sometimes the asking questions is enough, done in the right way, which tends to be in writing which neatly preempts a built in 'exit strategy', available for the school to adopt. The silence can be deafening, hence the need for an obvious, readily available 'exit strategy'....

I appreciate having students who require loads more attention to progress or engage must be very frustrating. It is just as frustrating for the parent when your child makes no progress and hates school with a passion. So it is tricky. One of my friends has 2 students at this school.One very hardworking bright and self motivated her other DD is similar to my DD. She is torn as school has been fab for DD1 and she loves it but awful for DD2 .
I worry as my DD is not quite severe enough for local SN places which seem to be predominantly boys but is not coping very well in a large school with one pastoral staff per 300 students in a huge school!

Thing is lucy this is not just about pastoral staff.

General attitudes have a lot to answer for IMO. Why does it take a Special School for teachers to be sensitive and to exercise a certain level of tolerance? If a child persistently seems to be experiencing difficulties looking at how to support, other than punishment / sanctions? Being kind? Caring?

Precisely but i think Michael Gove has a lot to answer for with all the cuts. DD used to have two tas in her classes of 30 kids now lucky if there is one . With a big class with varying needs i have sympathy for the class teachers trying to meet such and such a percentage must get this grade ! However a little kindness would go a long way with some!

I have mixed feeling tbh concerning some of the cuts and new SEN legislation. Previously, IMO, all to often children with additional needs were left with TAs, with not enough teacher (at all) input as a means of 'policing' or at the very best managing, SNs, instead of helping a child overcome their difficulties. It was a glorified version of segregation in some cases.

More staff for a class can mask SENs and ineffectual teaching. Sometimes when the resource is reduced what is really effective comes to light. Necessity being the mother of invention and all that...And I have a child who has had various SENs at different times during his school career.

I always think it is interesting how both staff and other parents focus so much on outcomes, targets, whatever you want to call it, without realising the assistance the student needs to reach these targets.

DD1 had a 1-2-1 TA, outlined in her statement and required for her to reach her potential (specific disability impacting on her learning although she is v intelligent). The amount of parents who saw this as "favouritism" was truly amazing, we had comments like "why should SHE have extra help when she is at the same level of other children". Talk about missing the point. And don't get me started on parents who assumed her TA should be for the whole class "oh what will the class do when your DD leaves, they will miss the TA to help them".

I just think some parents just don't GET sn, no malice, it's like how we as parents didn't really GET what it was like to have DC before they came along. And the lack of training teachers get in MS schools, it's no wonder children with sn struggle so much. I don't know what the solution is but I do know there needs to be more awareness, and therefore understanding,for other pupils, parents and staff.

I agree with capsium regarding funding. Funding doesn't write SMART IEPs, improve attitudes, develop good partnership relations with parents, create efficient planning. It doesn't (currently) train TAs or Teachers in effective practice for SENs.

In truth SEN has shedloads of money. The majority of which gets nowhere near the actual children who need it, but pumped into circular systems of 'monitoring', 'multi-disciplinary meetings', 'caseload management', 'referrals', 'assessments', 'room hire', 'support', 'external agency visits to advise teachers to do something they tried months ago', 'report writing' and 'reviews'.

malimo you have no arguments from me regarding your daughter having a designated 1 to 1, which is used as such, as per her Statement.

I do have a problem with 1 to 1s retained by schools but used as general TAs. If this works for the Statemented child the Statement should be changed to reflect the change in need. Anything less, is not acknowledging that child's progress. If this (reduced support) does not work, the impact can be devastating.

^sorry last post was to mamalino.

Have you had issues with grade changing (to show progress which hasn't happened).DD got 2b in her test but teacher put 5c when i questioned its as thats what "she thinks shes capable of " but again no evidence! Quite a big gap between 2B and 5c !

DD had a great TA in her previous school.She really filled DD with confidence was so sad to lose her. Yes i would love DD to achieve but her confidence and happiness is far more important.The lack of progress is a big concern but her hatred of school and confidence vanishing is my biggest upset.

lucy I suspected attainment was being managed somewhat, down rather than up, though, to retain funding, although this could have been partially subconscious on the teacher's part...they did not get involved with engaging with my DC very much day to day and left a lot of work to TAs. I did a lot of work at home to bridge the gap.

I agree you daughter's happiness and confidence is your first priority, Lucy.

Ok

As I am sure you all know, because it was so well advertised and the media really took it on the law changed on the 1st of September regarding SEND in schools. It's the biggest change to SEN law in 10yrs and the changes have actually been happening gradually.

As things stand the new code of practice is now law

www.gov.uk/government/publications/send-code-of-practice-0-to-25

There is now NO sChool Action, School Action Plus OR IEPs for anyone who does not have a statement of EHC plan

Some schools are continuing to use all the above but that is their CHOICE it is not law...

OP I get it - really I do but you may well need to change your stance to the school... Regardless of THEIR behaviour towards you and your DD YOU need to be whiter than white in terms of your attitude towards your DD's behaviour...

My son has ASD and challenging behaviour, he's statemented... Last term he witnessed a member of staff saying he had a bad attitude and he was also sanctioned for reacting to a member of staff communicating poorly with him.

I supported those sanctions and my son was told 'I am not interested in anyone else's behaviour or actions, only yours and I expect.........'

Now the incidents that happened were damn out of order - I was disgusted with the school - I wrote to head and asked that she dealt with it but at the same time I made it explicitly clear that I had dealt with my sons reaction to the situation
I made sure my son was not aware of my complaint and I made sure school were aware that he did not know. The members of staff were spoken to regarding their part in the incident - they have to work with my son and have to discipline him still so it was imperative that the relationship was not undermined by my opinion of those staff. There has been no repeats of the incidents.

He has been accused of things that were not him many, many, many times but he can never answer Yes when I have asked 'Were YOU sitting quietly, listening, doing your work?'
As I have said to him - like it or not he is more likely to be noticed than the next person so make sure 'YOUR behaviour is at the level that is expected at all times'

Now my son is not actually capable of maintaining himself but it's not an excuse. If I excuse it then that behaviour works for him.... I do lots of other things to raise his self-esteem, self confidence and we put in supports to help him manage: social stories, routine, visual timetables... It's not enough so he has recently been medicated, by CAMHS for anxiety - that also took a formal complaint.

You need to compartmentalise every element - you can support / impact / change some things but not others. The teachers age, attitude, approach is out of your control and so are the other children so concentrate your DD - pursue CAMHS, put some things in place at home and set her some expectations....

I have been doing this for years - it's a way of life and not a quick fix. It infuriates me the approach to him at times but I am now in a position where my son respects me and my son's school respect me enough to call me and tell me about one of the above incidents before my son did. It's not perfect but I don't waste my energy pursuing issues that I can change anymore either.

It's heart breaking stuff OP

Regardless of IEPs, School Action and School Action plus, schools still have to have differentiated SEN provision though.

They cannot apply for extra top up funding if they cannot demonstrate an initial individual spend of 6k meeting child's additional needs. So this would suggest there has to be some kind provision mapping in place within school.

Individual LAs can give more details, of the roll out of new legislation, if you read their public meeting minutes published on their website (democracy section). LAs also have to publish a 'Local Offer' re. SEN provision.

I actually think attitudes can be changed. Not directly maybe, but there are plenty of means in terms of getting your voice into the 'ether'.

ISEA ( web link given earlier) can advise as well re. what the school should be providing.

^that should be IPSEA. Typo.

Absolutely right there does need to be provision mapping but one question that was left unanswered was how the individual parent accesses this, especially as it will contain information regarding other children

Plus there is NO set way for schools to provision map - they are free to choose how they do this and as such unless you are familiar with provision mapping, educational outcomes, etc then you would find it difficult to ascertain if the provision mapping is of a decent quality and if your child's needs have been mapped / assessed correctly.

High needs funding is reliant on evidenced provision and is usually done via application to the LA - parents are not involved in that process and the big concern can be getting a school to recognise that there is a need in the first place.

Of course parents can change things but I invest my energies in what I can influence (usually my son's support at home and expectations) and deal with what I need to deal with that impacts upon that separately (parent forums, formal complaints, consultations), etc

Ds has never been given a detention in his current school in fact he is praised by all the teachers for the effort he puts into his work and his politeness. However his previous school which he attended for a short while before I pulled him out of it was very much like the op's. He was constantly in detention and I was called virtually everyday about some misdemeanour.

An example of one problem that led to several detentions was that during the It lesson. The IT room was set up so that all the computers faced the front of the class but for some unknown reason the back row of computers faced the back wall. Ds and the row at the back were working away with headphones on not realising that the lesson was stopping and they needed to take their head phones off. Instead of asking someone to tell them the lesson had ended. The teacher went up to them and gave them a detention for not stopping when she had asked them to. This happened to the same 5 boys and girls each week as they were not allowed to swap places. Then if you got more than 3 detentions in 1 term then you got another detention just for the hell of it. Ds was completely stressed out.

I think op that a new school is the only way forward however I would be suing their pants off before I went especially if you can prove that others have done stuff far worse and nothing gets done about it.

Op in dds school chewing gum is an on the spot suspendable offence.

Thank you. I have a folder full of dated evidence emails reports etc I think offsted would be interested in. I can't put some of the major issues on here due to their nature . Are you near london? your sons school sounds ideal. I think i will probably have to relocate eekkkk ! Only schools non selective are a long way. I looked at another but seemed incredibly academic and not very caring. I need to find a caring school which pref does vocational work .

I too have to move schools because of serious issues but to be honest the same issues would have re-occurred if I hadn't changed my attitude too.

Partly because my son was used to being bullied and intimidated by his teachers and other pupils.

He needed me to change as well as the school.

Good luck OP

It is just outside of London

I think a lot of emphasis is put on OFSTED reports and which is the better school and not on which school is better for ds or dd.

Ds goes to a school we actively chose for him. It is 14 miles away.
The looks range from horror to pity when I tell friends where he goes to school. It is quickly replaced by talk of him being on a waiting list for a "better" school near by. When I explain that he is not on any waiting and we all love the school I just get a look of confusion come over their faces.

He and I looked at every school within a 20 mile radius when choosing his secondary school. Every school apart from the one he now attends. We believed the newspaper reports. We went to every open evening of every school within that radius.

The first school we picked, an OFSTED rated Good school, had him in detention 2 or 3 times per week, I was being phoned up re his "bad" behaviour almost daily and according to his teachers he was a horror to teach. I know ds can be a handful at home but in school he was always as good as gold. I removed him after 6 weeks and put him in his current
school.

It was an horrendous comprehensive 2 years ago. From all newspaper accounts the staff were demoralised and the pupils out of control.
In steps a new HT with a huge budget to fix up the school, expel anyone who was a bad influence and shake up the teaching staff ( I think he said 80%of teachers had been replaced in the last 2 years).
What is left is a secondary school of 400 pupils (it can take in excess of 1800) that means there is only 12 pupils in ds's classes. Everyone has a brand new IMac computer in the computer room. The teaching staff are new and energised and ds gets the 1 to 1 he needs because of his dyslexia.

Ds has never been given a detention in his current school in fact he is praised by all the teachers for the effort he puts into his work, His politeness to teachers and pupils have not gone unnoticed and he amasses merits by the bucket load. He himself has not changed however how teachers respond to him has.

Dayshift as per usual there must be difference between LA to LA. Our's has specifically stated there needs to be a move to 'joint' decision making with parents rather than 'consultation' with parents. Although it is unclear, as yet, as to what this will mean in actuality...

As I have stated earlier, I actually prefer provision mapping to IEPs. Done well, I think they are more informative. Examples available on the web are available, which can help a parent understand the quality of what is being provided.

I agree though, you do have to pick your battles, I do the same. However I think the OP is absolutely right to seek advice and challenge the school (IPSEA can advise as to what her DD's should rightfully receiving in terms of her SEN) in this matter.

Mandyandme would you mind inboxing me the name of this school? no issue if not. I agree to much pressure on school staff and students and I know many parents want that and indeed some students thrive in that enviroment.

Op my heart goes out to you

So many people on here have framed the problem in really insightful ways - and I hope it gives you support though practically, it's clear you have your work cut out for you.