I think DDs school want her out

[lucydaniels4658]

DD 14 attends an academy school. She is achieving very low grades 3c-4a . She has ADHD and dyslexia . In the last few months they seem to be targeting DD . DD is no angel but she has never bullied anyone sworn smoked etc . Her crime not concentrating and being a bit disruptive (chatty ). Previous schools have dealt with it well simply by refocussing her . They tell her she is going to be permanently excluded then wonder why she has become more defiant and off with them .I know there are students much more challenging but achieve higher grades and they don't get harassed. They call me many times a day over things like her shirt was untucked ,she had gum really trivial minor things that don't warrant the sanctions and calls home.Where as some classmates truant and swear and nothing.Even her classmates ask teacher why they only tell DD off . When i complain they more or less say im the problem and they are trying to "correct her behaviour" and i make it difficult. Sadly moving her isn't an option in the area i'm in. I'm so desperate i'm considering homeschooling but she'd hate it she is very sociable . I have made official complaint and outcome was they are doing their job i'm preventing them. What would you do?!!

Thanks I am looking at other schools in the next two weeks . They do indeed think i am an over protective nut case !

Sounds like you are defending her poor behaviour and she has picked up on this.

Breaking school rules on uniform and chewing are not acceptable, not part of her SEN and are easily fixed. By openly doing these things and not sorting them you and your DD are sticking two fingers up at the school. Our school has a zero-tolerance approach to low-level disruption and rule breaking - the overall behaviour has improved leaps and bounds, and the number of serious incidents is down. Calls are made to parents when students regularly fail to follow these most basic rules.

Persistent low-level disruption, regular defiance, persistent failure to follow school rules and a break down of the school/home relationship are all reasons for exclusion. There needs to be evidence that the school has tried to solve these issues and communicated with you - hence then phone calls.

Depending on the rewards - then there may be a case not to give them after only a day of good behaviour. If it is a 'good' mark or something then there is no harm in giving her one after a good lesson or two but if it is something more substantial then by giving her it after only one day means that she will be getting rewarded (more than the other students) for doing what everyone else is simply expected to do. I've seen this set up a pattern in children where they won't behave unless they are getting something material out of it. The motivation needs to be intrinsic to really be of worth in the long term.

I have stated at least three times on this thread it's not about gum and shirts. That is not an ongoing issue happened once each not something she is doing over and over. I am pretty sure should it come to it most people would take a pretty dim view on them excluding a student for sometimes not concentrating if the school are putting no strategies in place to help her . Yes she has her more disruptive defiant moments but most teenagers do with or without additional needs when these arise i support the school. I am Not defending poor behaviour but they can't expect total perfection all the time in an "inclusive " school .

intheen I am not an expert on ADHD, but even I can see how this would impact on remembering to keep a shirt tucked in, remembering to take out chewing gum, concentration in class, frustration levels etc. it does not even take that much imagination as previous posters who have direct experience with the condition gave posted.

Zero tolerance is exactly the opposite of how we, as human beings, should be behaving. Not very loving or forgiving, is it? The fact that Zero Tolerance is seen as something people mention, almost with pride, something to be aspired to, within today's education system, makes me worry about where we, as a society, are going.

It was Zero Tolerance that destroyed my son in primary school, and several others with autism, adhd etc. These children have disabilities and need support, not punishment. More tolerance, not less, is what is required.

intheen of course motivation needs to be intrinsic. However how is punishing children, over every trivial infraction encouraging them to be intrinsically motivated? This, 'zero tolerance', actually distracts and detracts away from the more interesting subject matter of what is actually (supposed to) being taught....

Thanks streaky.

Zero tolerance is not good for students with no SN. I know no employer is zero tolerance even for us adults as everyone makes mistake . Idon't have an issue with school saying "DD stop that if you don't X will happen" then not hold onto a grudge but going crazy over every tiny thing is never going to work.

I teach a number of children with ADHD. Yes, I make allowances - more "take up time" if they're asked to or reminded to do something, ensure that good choices are praised and so on.

However, students still have to follow the rules, and I have the same high expectations of all my students. Other kids in the classes get really cross if it seems that the child with ADHD is getting more praise points than anyone else simply because they are following basic expectations. The biggest difference is parents who are supportive and have had proper diagnoses and are following professional advice with regards to medication. A child with ADHD cannot be blamed for some of the behaviours they exhibit, but a parent who does not help their child by seeking medical advice and using medication is, IMO, part of the problem.

Evil, Parents who are supportive? Or do you mean parents who agree with you?

Added to this is is not always appropriate to medicate and this has to be a carefully balanced decision taken which takes into consideration the (sometimes quite serious) side effects, contradictions v. the benefits. This decision is one that, quite rightly, rests with the parents. How dare you judge them?

Evil Twins If the other children are put out because you treat children with ASD appropriately then you should remind them to be compassionate and that treating people the same and treating people fairly are not the same.

Evil the OP does have a diagnosis and is on the CAMHS waiting list for a reveiw re medication .These services are hugely over stretched , my ds school has very high expectations of both behaviour and academic performance but they don't hound them ceaselessly they try to work out why the child is struggling to behave and then address the cause and not just the symptom.

To be frank it's pretty depressing that teenagers would be unable to understand why some need more help than others .They are not 5 , they are 15 and old enough to understand that a child with ADHD has a medical condition that they will have to live with their whole life and that in the long run their own opportunities are likely to be far better than then the child with extra needs .Its a bit like saying they think it is unfair that the disabled child gets to use the lift

And parents do not issue diagnoses...Doctors do. How can you blame a parent for a doctor, in their professional opinion not issuing a diagnosis? Or does teacher trump doctor?

Let's not assume that professionals are always right. All it means is that they get paid for what they do. It doesn't automatically mean that they are good at it.

As i'm sure many of you know CAHMS is a very long process i get appointments then they cancel . I suppose rightly so the DCs with severe mental health issues that are a risk to themselves and others are priority.

streaky I agree. Professionals most certainly make mistakes too.

However one professional, legitimately cannot slate another, over the diagnosis they make and then at the same time try to claim professional superiority over their own specialism.

Parents who are supportive? Or do you mean parents who agree with you?

This, in my experience, was what schools meant by 'working in partnership'. We had so much bad advice from schools, LA and NHS that was absolutely the wrong thing for ds - stereotypical, off-the-shelf drivel that drove him to the brink of mental health. Children like ours need to be treated as individuals, with their own unique presentation of their dx taken into account when giving support. And that's just for starters.

Hello OP.
Just come back to this.
I am afraid it was only resolved by leaving after GCSEs and going elsewhere.
I knew from previous experience that I would get nowhere with the school.
DD is extremely fortunate to not have any additional needs, and she was able to grit her teeth and get through. She is a strong character and bright, so very fortunate in that respect.

Hence my lack of useful advice.

Not at all, but OP is full of excuses and is blaming the school. I do know what I'm talking about. For example, I currently teach two boys in yr 9, both of whom have ADHD. Both are medicated and have IEPs and PSPs at school, which are followed by all staff (this is checked by our excellent SENCO) However, one boy's mother is very supportive - makes herself available to come into school, has good relationships with key staff, is always ready to talk about how we can work together to support her DS and supports the school by having a home reward system which goes with the school one (eg a certain number of praise points at school leads to a reward at home) AND being consistent with sanctions. The other mother treats school like the enemy and is not consistent with sanctions - she has spoken to me before now because her DS is very talented in my subject and I had asked her if he could be involved in a particular activity. She told him that he could but only if he didn't get any demerits for the week running up to the event. He did get demerits but she let him do the event anyway.

Schools and parents need to work together. Is it so hard to accept that actually teachers want to help every child achieve?

Schools and parents need to work together. Is it so hard to accept that actually teachers want to help every child achieve?

Actually yes, given some experiences it IS quite difficult to accept that. The two primary schools my son attended clearly didn't' want him there - he was a nuisance and required too much effort on their part. I could give hundreds of examples to back that up. I was that positive, supportive, engaged parent but both schools adopted a policy of them being right and me being wrong, despite proven success with strategies I was using at home which they refused to even look at in school. Even the Ed psych wanted them to use them to build a consistent approach between school and home, but it didn't happen.

Your school sounds very good Evil but not all are like that, far from it. I'd have been delighted to get the support that seems to be given where you are. In my experience, it was the parents who were the enemies of the school, and staff were on the defensive about ANY issue that parents had concerns about.

Yes, you're right that schools and parents need to work together, but that has to be a true partnership of equals and focus on the needs of the child, always. There is often too much power-play going on in schools for that to happen.

EvilFrom what she has said, in terms of what has been happening, the school is to blame for their appalling treatment of her DD.

Maybe. The difference in approach to the school from the different parents could be because one child receives teaching which is appropriate to him and one does not? Why should a parent be consistent with sanctions they do not agree are beneficial? You seem to have the attitude teachers trump parents over parenting decisions too...

If you want to help every child you treat them as individuals and do not treat parents who disagree with you as 'the enemy'. Sometimes it is appropriate to disagree, like when a person is suggesting something that is wrong / shortsighted....

Evil twins I am not full of excuses and as i have said through out am very supportive in fair sanctions . I reward/sanction at home but the school are not working with DD they are working against her . My issue is DD has no IEP I have asked to see it countless times. Therefore no evidence they are supporting her to access the national curriculum. In previous schools i have signed IEPs known targets etc. DD is years behind in academic subjects so needs intervention .

Medication may not be suitable because of side effects which can differ between child. Often ADHD medicines reduce appetite - not great if your child is already underweight. Often ADHD meds have effects on sleep - not great if your child already has a disturbed night because of their disability. Many parents are very concerned about long-term effects on brain development

As a parent you have to weigh up the pro's and con's of medication and this is going to be different for each child because they are individuals after all and have different level's of difficulty. It is my view that medication should never be used as a substitute for lack of reasonable adjustments at school. Some teachers obviously feel differently but then it is not their child who is being medicated.

Medication is not always the answer Evil, my son was on medication but we have recently had to take him off as the side effects were causing his BMI to fall dangerously low

Agreed. My son takes two types of medication for his adhd. It helps, but he still has enormous problems with organisation, memory, processing and motivation. He wouldn't last a week with the demands of a typical secondary school because he needs a high level of day to day support AS WELL as the drugs.