I think DDs school want her out

[lucydaniels4658]

DD 14 attends an academy school. She is achieving very low grades 3c-4a . She has ADHD and dyslexia . In the last few months they seem to be targeting DD . DD is no angel but she has never bullied anyone sworn smoked etc . Her crime not concentrating and being a bit disruptive (chatty ). Previous schools have dealt with it well simply by refocussing her . They tell her she is going to be permanently excluded then wonder why she has become more defiant and off with them .I know there are students much more challenging but achieve higher grades and they don't get harassed. They call me many times a day over things like her shirt was untucked ,she had gum really trivial minor things that don't warrant the sanctions and calls home.Where as some classmates truant and swear and nothing.Even her classmates ask teacher why they only tell DD off . When i complain they more or less say im the problem and they are trying to "correct her behaviour" and i make it difficult. Sadly moving her isn't an option in the area i'm in. I'm so desperate i'm considering homeschooling but she'd hate it she is very sociable . I have made official complaint and outcome was they are doing their job i'm preventing them. What would you do?!!

I appreciate all the cuts in education will impact . Thankyou polter i will always defend my DD unless she is in the wrong then i do come down hard on her but they ignore the good she does. She is so kind and has looked after a girl with far more complex problems stuck up for her against bullies and spends breaks with her even supporting her through some awful CP issues and helped her get support with these. So this constant "bad girl" thing gets old.She was also told off for intervening and not getting staff when she told the bullied where to go .

No child thrives on constant criticism. They just give up trying.

I know two lovely young people who were sent into a tailspin by a school that never gave them any support and just opted to label them as bad kids.

I'm stunned that your school is telling a child with ADHD off for having her shirt hanging out. God we be telling everyone off ADHD or not. I know chewing gum is not pleasant but it's not a war crime. And as for ringing you to tell you her shirt is untucked they clearly have nothing else to do! We'd been on the phone all day. I don't see this as your problem frankly you're not standing over her all day.
You need to meet with the school to discuss a way forward, we pick our battles carefully with our ADHD pupils, neither incidences mentioned above would cause us to tell them off, as anyone who knows anything about ADHD knows telling them off only makes the problem worse. We aim at firmly correcting unwanted disruptive behaviour; endlessly falling off a chair, leaping around, etc, constantly opening and shouting desk lids etc, plus we try and encourage concentration by keeping things short or in chunks, and constantly trying to refocus their attention and of course lots of positive reinforcement. It's not easy but telling them off in my experience just raises anxiety levels and makes them worse. She's disruptive because she has ADHD she ultimately probably can't help it. Her deteriorating behaviour is because she's becoming more stressed and anxious this makes her ADHD worse and then she gets told off more and she becomes more difficult and anxious etc etc.
You clearly need a CAMHs appointment ASAP if you're waiting ages can you get your GP to chase it up especially as her school are now getting on your and case. CAMHs don't want children excluded or home educated frankly they want children to stay in main stream education at their school. Unfortunately they are very busy especially at the moment and like everyone else in the NHS really struggling under enormous financial restrictions and staff are leaving in droves worn out. Paraphrasing the nurses poem; I would like to do help your child (wash you mother, feed your father, hold your hand when your dying), but they are too many of you and not enough of us. I first saw that 30 years ago, it was bad then but now it's become impossible. It's sadly frequently is a case of he who shouts loud enough ....
I do hope you get it resolved.

Thank you glad others share my opinions by first few posters i thought i must be going mad! Just think secondary is much trickier at primary the teacher has them all day and get to know them well at secondary so much moving around and DD is a bit misunderstood and can be tricky but pick your battles to win the war at the moment its all battle ! I understand their frustrations but maybe they should reconsider their careers if they choose to argue and bicker with teenagers and hold petty grudges . The teachers who treat her well get the most out of her.

Please don't assume the first posters don't have experience of sen just because you don't like the answers.

My school tells kids off for having their shirt untucked or for chewing gum and I'm a bit surprised that other schools might consider it a waste of time.

Not chewing gum is well in the control of a student with ADHD. They simply don't bring gum into school. I've taught many students with ADHD and have never been told to lay off them chewing gum because they can't help it. If gum chewing was a strategy to help them concentrate then that would be different, but so far it hasn't come up, and the OP hasn't mentioned it.

I agree Herc

The point is that if a child has special needs that doesn't mean carte blanche to break all school rules. The school has to have some form of discipline. I agree that problems should be handled properly in consultation with the parents. And if you feel the school is not dealing adequately with the situation then of course you must speak up.

Not chewing gum is well in the control of a student with ADHD. They simply don't bring gum into school

However if a child is being told off everytime they turn around, what have they got to lose?

No one wants children chewing gum but all I'm saying is that a child who is clearly stressed and unhappy needs tactful handling and not being being told off at every turn. this will alienate her further and makes her more anxious and stressed. It's also not necessarily the mothers fault, she may be getting the gum from a school friend so why ring her. It's the same with an untucked shirt? Who cares? My DS is very tall and very thin his shirt barely reaches his trousers it's always hanging out, in the grand scheme it really doesn't matter, it's only a shirt. He's at a very smart school but no ones ever says a word.

Its not that i think she should chew gum or disagree with telling her not to but this week she can't even seem to breathe the right way and breathing down her neck 24/7 is turning her into a nervous wreck. They don't need to call me about an un tucked shirt for gods sake just tell her to tuck it in . I feel like they are documenting every tiny thing as evidence as maybe im suspicious but for two teachers to tell her she is going to be permanently excluded is a coincidence plus they have set a new bar of 90 % will get 5 A-C's. I know you say other students aren't my business however an A student has since DD started bullied on three occasions , smoked cannibis in school and truanted (and before you ask i know this is true won't say how but its not from DD). However if DD did anything like this she'd be gone before i could blink .

I really do not think this constant harping on at any child (unbelievably to the extent of contacting parents) never mind at one who has additional difficulties impacting on their behaviour, over trivial matters improves the quality of education one iota.

Low level disruption has always been present within education and IME the classes which had the least disruption were the ones which were the ones where the teachers actually bothered to engage with the pupils. Constant criticism over trivial matters does not help to engage pupils with a subject, it just builds up resentment and smacks of playing power games.

When we were a Secondary we were disciplined and told to tuck shirts in etc. However these matters were not escalated in importance to the current levels. No wonder some children become demoralised.

I think building good relationships with the students has a massive impact on learning and know how to get the best from them. Some DCs thrive under pressure some crumble they are all individuals . It is tricky as you try and teach your children to stand up to bullies but that backfires as defiance if they feel the teacher is being unfair. There is so much pressure on schools to get that outstanding label and certain grades the DC's needs are not considered . One teacher that called me to complain ranted for a while before i said "that doesn't sound like DDs name" she said oh wrong number should have been " ooppppsss i must be on speed dial.

Low level disruption has always been present within education and IME the classes which had the least disruption were the ones which were the ones where the teachers actually bothered to engage with the pupils. Constant criticism over trivial matters does not help to engage pupils with a subject, it just builds up resentment and smacks of playing power games.

While I agree that building relationships with the kids is very important, sweating the small stuff is also key. High expectations of behaviour and 'trivial matters' sets an ethos for learning. If a teacher stands at the door and says 'you're not coming into my classroom dressed like that, or chewing gum' then a message is being sent about who is in charge. The teacher has to be in charge of their classroom otherwise with 30 kids in there there would be chaos. And I've seen it happen.

giraffe there is a difference in dealing with dcs with LDs or SNs. If a teacher said that to my 8yo, he would take what she said literally and simply walk away or sit down outside the classroom. Not being shirty, just taking what she said literally, like it was a choice IYSWIM. Dcs who struggle like that will fall apart at constant nitpicking like that, as their anxiety will skyrocket, leaving them unable to cope with learning.

It's astonishing how many kids with SEN I've managed to tell to tuck their shirt in without them having some sort of breakdown.

I'm not sure having low expectations of them across the board would be doing them any favours.

Obviously there are always individuals who need special handling in matters of discipline, but I've found that that is independent of SEN rather than being a blanket rule for a group of kids with a particular label.

OP - I am sorry you have had a bit of a bad time on here.
My dd was bullied by 2 teachers at her school and it went on for a couple of years.
It is an awful position to be in because generally people always assume that the teacher is right and the child is wrong.
Sometimes it isn't that simple.
I am afraid I don't have any advice, but I just wanted to offer a bit of sympathy.

noble you don't sweat the small stuff. People who are genuinely in charge do not need to play power games to assert their authority, it just oozes from every pore.

The best teachers I remember were like this, inspiring, commanding and fascinating. I've worked with children too (including challenging ones) and never required the nit picky style discipline.

I used chewing gum and shirt as an example !!! its not all about these two issues which have happened once each . I wouldn't mind a teacher saying that to DD . It is just relentless . That does not warrant a call home ,after schools and being put on report . What you said would be ample "put your gum in the bin tuck your shirt in and don't come in like that again" would have been enough. Everything is just being blown out of the water and its breaking DD she often calls me crying from the toilets . Last time DD was told off the teacher said "go and call your mum crying over this off you go" . DD is very literal and was told she looked like she "was sucking a lemon" she said "im not look" ( opening mouth) . This was seen as sarcastic massive communication breakdown.Tell her to "pull your socks up" and she will do just that.

capsium teachers who ooze authority from every pore are a rare thing. That's a personality trait. Other teachers, the majority, have to employ behaviour management techniques. And setting your expectations high, and at the door of your classroom is a very powerful and useful one. It's not playing games or any bollocks like that, it's making your classroom manageable. You can't tell teachers that they shouldn't employ tried and tested behaviour management techniques, they should simply ooze authority instead, that's just silly.

I don't want her to be treated differently just not to be picked on. Once its been decided they are trouble its very hard to shake that label.

I can and did noble. These 'tried and tested' techniques do not seem to work across the board, do they?

Flexibility, responsiveness, sensitivity and treating children as the individuals they are is far more important IME.

Thanks 3little frogs how was your situation resolved ?

I agree you get out what you put in.By all means discipline is key but so is credit where credits due. DD spent hours doing a presentation and tried so hard blood sweat and tears at home (literally!). She was proud but worried she was told "not good enough could have done better" . Everything is i think your capable of more not good enough . How do they know ?!! They have never said one thing she has done is good enough so what are they looking for or judging this could have done better on !!

It's astonishing how many kids with SEN I've managed to tell to tuck their shirt in without them having some sort of breakdown.

So happy for you. That doesn't mean that constant nitpicking at a child with SNs is appropriate or helpful.

I'm not sure having low expectations of them across the board would be doing them any favours.

There's a difference between having high expectations and nitpicking.

I think my post was pretty clear, so I can only assume you are deliberately misunderstanding what I said. You go ahead and bash on with your agenda. I only came on here to help the OP, not nitpick. I'll bow out and let you get on with it then.