'State schools are creating amoral children'

[BurgenSnurgen]

...because state schools are under so much pressure to improve results that there's no time to teach them right from wrong.

So says Chairman of the Independent Schools Association

Bit speechless really. It's giving me the absolute RAGE.

Amber many boarding schools are of course becoming increasingly ethnically diverse as fewer UK parents have the odd spare £34k + pa that they can spend on school fees. My DS has boys from many different countries in his house, Europeans of course and HK Chinese but also Africans Iranians Japanese Americans and South Americans. I hope that literally living along side just an ethnically diverse group promotes the idea tolerance and racial equality.
Coming back to the point made at the beginning of this thread surely no schools from either sector can be entirely responsible for creating a broad moral compass in our young people. Parents obviously play a role but our media also are important and at the risk of sounding like a old fogey or that women off the Moral Maze Melanie Phillips who I personally can't stand this is surely where things are going wrong. Our celebrity obsessed culture (many of whom can't be congratulated for leading a moral and ethical life) promoted by the likes of News international, our TV soaps where abnormal unpleasant and often amoral behaviour is made the norm, the promotion of materialism this what many children are exposed too on a daily basis. No school can fight against this.

Wot Amber said. And Maddaddam.

Also the homophobia posters

Anyway I've got to go and take my younger daughter to go and sign in for her next five years of immorality at her sister's comp. At least she'll get qualifications

And I don't see any superior morality from privately educated folk.

And re: environment - our school is a frequent litter picker, the children have all sorts of nature clubs. Children actively encouraged to cycle to school, they have cycling tests at the end of the final year.

It is also very involved with fair trade - the children learn about supply chains and wages. They are very passionate about the farmers getting a fair amount of money for produce.

Another primary school has its own wind turbine!

I have also seen our local secondary school out litter picking in the surrounding streets.

I know thus is all anecdotal but I really, really don't recognise what this person is saying about state education.

I don't know what happens in the private sector - how are the children taught morality? I should imagine the strategies are informed by what is happening in the state sector. Otherwise perhaps they leave it up to the church.

Mumtrying my comment you've got to get used to stumping up that kind of money was meant to be slightly ironical although of course it's true as well. I think my previous comments demonstrated that I'm fully aware that there are different types of prep school not once did I say there was only one type.
Swannery there as many shinny SUV's at DS1's state school as there is at DS2'a boarding school in fact as this is wealthy farmers area maybe more at DS1's school.

You could argue that private schools are bad at giving students a moral compass as their students do not have daily practise of interacting with those who are: of different Intelligence levels, have special needs, and of a different economic background.

You could, but in at least three cases I have personal experience of, you'd be very wrong.

And really as only 7 per cent of children are privately educated you do wonder why the 'independent sector's practises are given such importance.

"I don't know what happens in the private sector"
Like the state sector it's mixed, I know boys at DS2's school pick litter, most do weekly voluntary work which varies from clearing rivers, chess with autistic children, running with the blind, helping the elderly etc. I doubt fair trade food is given much of a priority (unlike DS1's comp) but at my DS's pre prep all meet was organic. At DS3's boys get taught PSHE type stuff by "div dons," HM's AHM's, specialist doctors give talks and in many boarding schools school nurses also discuss contraception, drugs etc.
Teachers I speak to often feel,that more emphasis is placed on good manners particularly towards those in authority in independent schools and thinking about and the children I meet this might be true but genuine bad behaviour exists in both.
I agree that neither has a monopoly in this area.

Do we need to have the daily practice of interacting with those who are of: different intelligence levels, have special needs and of an different economic background to develop a moral compass?
I never had any of these things when I was a child (I lived under a nice comfortable MC stone) but I am 110% committed to the children I work with, who come from these back grounds and more. I choose this line of work 30 years ago because I believe in what I try to do (although now changing my line of work due to exhaustion and delusion created by successive interfering governments although this one has finished me off). My moral compass in respect of disadvantages children and adults was developed at a very early age.

I do agree with this feeding the fear, though. You only have to read Mumsnet for a day or two to hear the misconceptions and panic from parents about state schools. The last thing that is needed is still more scaremongering. But all's fair in advertising, I suppose.

happygardening “many boarding schools are of course becoming increasingly ethnically diverse as fewer UK parents have the odd spare £34k + pa that they can spend on school fees.”

Non boarding private schools don’t charge fees anywhere as high as £34k:

“Recent figures showed that average annual day school fees rose by around £450 to £12,153 last year.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10342677/Rising-private-school-fees-pricing-out-the-middle-classes.html

Just to bring a fact into the picture - school age children actually spend 70% of their waking hours outside school :-)

Mumtrying frankly I'm struggling to see what your point is? As seems pretty clear to me I was commenting on the posts up thread that implied and made the assertion that all independent schools are stuffed with wealthy white MC children and I was pointing out that as boarding fees are now so high that many UK families can't afford them and that the number of boarders from a wide variety of other countries is rising year on year therefore these schools are becoming increasingly ethnically diverse.
Unsurprisingly I am perfectly aware of perfectly aware of the approximate cost of day both fees and boarding fees.

I also think that while everyone bangs on about children in the state sector facing neglect and deprivation, and therefore 'acting out,' but there is a different sort of neglect amongst some children in the private sector.

A private education doesn't protect you from a parent who drinks/ takes drugs/ DV or is physically/emotionally abusive or absent.

While children educated within the state sector (all 93%) are viewed with suspicion by some parents, their children will be mixing with others in the independent sector who are experiencing neglect and abuse too.

Utter rubbish! About 95% of children are in state schools and 95% are not amoral! Parents should be setting the example - children do as you do and not what you say. Children need time with parents -and plenty of time to talk.

No a private education doesn't protect you from parents who drink, take drugs etc but if you combine poor parenting with abject poverty, poor housing, uneducated or illiterate or absent parents, the health problems often sadly associated with this group then the long term future for these children is significantly worse than a child with these problem but a wealthy home.
These are the children that as a society we should be doing our utmost to improve their lot in life, a moral compass would be nice but food, decent housing, education etc would be a start.

The Telegraph - where this appeared is always trying to fuel anxiety about state/ private divide. Much of its education reporting is poor quality. I expect the actual speech will be rather different.

the long term future for these children is significantly worse than a child with these problem but a wealthy home.

Yes that is true.

I think that from a moral perspective there is always some idea that children from deprived socio-economic backgrounds somehow lack judgement about what is right and wrong. And that will in turn 'infect' other 'naice' children and therefore they are privately educated with other naice children to protect them.

And yet some boys from a top private school in this area kicked a father to death in the street a few years back. No one questioned the moral values being taught in that school. It is still very highly regarded. A state school would have been subject to far more criticism I think. It's sheer snobbery.

cam across this...I suppose this is the sort of morality that is taught in the independent sector

happy you ask if someone needs to interact daily with people different from yourself to develop acceptance - the answer is of course you don't!
I had barely met anoyone that wasn't WC before I went to unveristy. I had certainly never met a muslim or a jew or anyone openly gay.

But I wasn't a screaming racist/homophobe!

Also, as has been said, the vast majoirty of society do attend inclusive state schools and frankly this has not resulted in an inclusive society, tolerant of all...

I saw this on the front of a paper just now it might have been the Times - what grated a bit was the description of the person who said it as 'HEAD OF TOP SCHOOL' well it is not 'top school' is it, it is just one of those crappy little prep schools that is desperate for money.

This is such a sad, judgemental thread. If we are all being perfectly honest most teachers whether state or indie want their pupils to grow up as happy, well rounded citizens and most achieve this. All sorts of factors influence what eventually happens to our pupils but it incredibly rarely the school they attended.

No word you're right the frightening increase popularity of UKIP amongst the affluent working classes is a testimony to the fact that attending inclusive schools has not resulted in an inclusive society. And as UBik depressing article shows there's plenty of smug, satisfied ex independent school pupils out there as well.
I don't know how we can create a acting inclusive society.

I hate this auto correct!
I'm tried to day I don't know how we create an all inclusive society.

HAppygardening

We narrow the gap between rich and poor

You don't have to man the barricades as far as Im concerned I'm not a complete unreconstructed capitalist Ubik. I come from a family of staunch leftie liberal educated wealthy MC trade union leaders/activists and vociferous women's right campaigners, sounds incompatible but believe me in the 70's there were quite a few out there swimming pools big detached houses and all. My DH who's slightly to the right of Genghis Khan calls them leftie hypocrites a little unkind I think.